The CBB

Lao Kou wrote:

Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?

At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").

Yeah, that's because of lenitions. I kind of wonder if they wouldn't say all the "th"-sounds as and [z], but realizing them by default as [t] and [d] except where they lenit between vowels seems likely enough too.

Waku

[oːl ˈjuːman biːŋ aː boːn pˠiː an‿iːkəlː iŋ ˈdigːniti an raik̚ dei̯ aː eˈdau̯d ɰidː ˈriːson an ˈkonːsen an sudː akː təˈoːd ɰɑn ənˈədːə in ə ˈpirik̚ əv ˈbˠədːəhʊdː

Nizhmel

[ol ˈʐuman pʲieŋ a pɔn fʲi an ˈikol in ˈtʲiknʲiti an rat tʲe a ˈentat wit ˈrisɔn an ˈkonʂɛn an ʂud ak tɔot van anˈɔdɛ in a ˈpirit ɔv ˈbɔdɛhud]

Thes transcriptions might represent quite thick accents of the respective conlangs. I could theoretically construct even thicker accents, with everything adapted to the phonology of Waku and Nizhmel - but I assumed that the speakers has a acquired some minimal training in English phonology, and are at least imperfectly able to handle phonemes occurring in different positions (f.ex. in Waku, /d/ cannot end a word), or to place stress on different syllables (f.ex. in Nizhmel, stress always fall on the first syllable).

The phonology of Miwonša does not get along well with English at all :D


ɔl 'ɕu.mãː 'pĩː.s‿aː 'pɔːn friː ãː 'i.kwal wit 'tik.ni.ti ã 'raɪ̯.tsi. tɛ.j‿aː ɛ̃ː'taʊ̯t wit 'riːzɛ̃ː ãː 'kɔ̃ːʃɛ̃ːs ãː ʃu.'t‿ak tu.'waːs wãː a'nata ĩː a 'spirit ɔp 'pratahut

Lonmai Luna:

/ól híuman bíns aɹ bón fɹí en íkwol in dikníti en ɹáis dei aɹ indáut wit kánʃens en ʃut ét tuwós wán anáda in a spíɹit af bɹádahut/

Urban Basanawa:

If a Basanawa speaker tries to pronunce it using the (American) English pronunciation rule, it would be like this:

/ɔɫ hɪ'jʊmən 'bi:ŋks ar 'bɔrn 'fri: ɛn 'ɪkwəɫ ɪn dɪk'nɪtɪ ɛn 'raɪts de: ar ɪn'daʊt wɪt 'kɔnʃəns ɛn ʃʊt 'akt tʊ'wɔrts wan ə'nɔdər ɪn ə 'spi:rɪt ɔf 'brɔdərhu:t/

However, there's another possibility, although Urban Basanawa is currently not written in any Latin-derived script, it used to, and as both of Urban Basanawa and English are Ingvaeonic west Germanic languages and has many words that look similar when writing in Latin-derived scripts, it can lead to confusion sometimes, therefore, some people may pronunce English words using the way one pronunces using the romanization of Urban Basanawa:

/aɫ 'hʊman 'be:ŋks ɑ:r 'bɔrn 'fri: ant 'ekwaɫ ɪn dɪk'ni:tɪ ant 'rɪçts de: ɑ:r en'do:t mɪt kɔns'tsi:nts ant ʃo:ɫt 'akt tə'warts o:n a'no:dər ɪn a 'spi:rɪt ɔf 'brɔdərhu:t/

Lao Kou wrote:

Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?

At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").

Hmmmm . . . I always say [wɪð].

Checking Wiktionary, it looks as if what people use is more complicated than I thought:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with#Pronunciation

Khemehekis wrote:

Lao Kou wrote:

Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?

At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").

Hmmmm . . . I always say [wɪð].

Checking Wiktionary, it looks as if what people use is more complicated than I thought:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with#Pronunciation

I only say [wɪð] when it is followed with "a" "an" or "the".

Pofpʼash

[ʔouʔ xu'mem bis sa boŋ ʒi ʔen ni'kʷu ʔen diɳɳi'ti ʔen nʷaits | dej ja ʔen'daut tʷi dʷi'zen eŋ koɳ'ʒedz eŋ ɣut ak te'woz wan nana'da ʔen nas pi'jit tev boda'ɣut]

Khemehekis wrote:

Lao Kou wrote:

Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?

At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").

Hmmmm . . . I always say [wɪð].

Checking Wiktionary, it looks as if what people use is more complicated than I thought:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with#Pronunciation

Not meaning to continue the current "off-topic" subject, but my pronunciation of /wɪð/ can vary between [wɪð], [wɪθ] and [wɪ(j)] depending on how much final-consonant devoicing I allow, regressive voice assimilation and on how far into my Yorkshire accent I'll go as opposed to my so-called "Forces accent".

Over the phone or at work with customers it's almost always [wɪð], except when affected by regressive voice assimilation triggered by a following voiceless consonant where it becomes [wɪθ].

With the people I work with, or with family over the phone, it shifts to [wɪ] before consonants and [wɪj] before vowels, so that /wɪðaʊt/ is more like [wɪjaʊʔ].

I have an odd accent that I tend to use with friends or when very happy where it will vary between [wɪð] and [wɪθ], only appearing with [ð] when appearing before a voiced consonant at the start of the following word, as best I can tell. It's a weird mishmash of accents that I've picked up over the last decade or so. There's some Welsh in there, but mostly in set phrases and words, some Russian, and a recent hint of Icelandic all laid on top of a Yorkshire accent with some Estuary influences. It's a bit of a pain

I think my situation is similar to the one described by Lao Kou (I'd say [wɪθ] nine times out of ten). In fact, I'd never even considered that anyone would say [wɪð] before this discussion. Now, although it doesn't happen often, I realize that I say [wɪð] sometimes as well, mostly before voiced consonants and vowels. It's interesting to me that [wɪð] is normal in some dialects, as I've always thought of the word as [wɪθ] (and "without" as [wɪˈθaʊ̯ʔ]). Before this, if I had heard someone say [wɪð] in isolation, I would have assumed they were saying "width".

Can I tell you guys a secret?
I pronounce it tθ and dð.

qwed117 wrote:Can I tell you guys a secret?
I pronounce it tθ and dð.

So you pronounce with the same as width? Also, which dialect of English do you speak? I can think of a couple with affricates instead of dental fricatives.

HoskhMatriarch wrote:

qwed117 wrote:Can I tell you guys a secret?
I pronounce it tθ and dð.

So you pronounce with the same as width? Also, which dialect of English do you speak? I can think of a couple with affricates instead of dental fricatives.

widθ, something Generally American. It seems to come from my parents who are Indians. I actually have both affricates and fricates; affricates are word initial like in "the" [dðə]

[ă̙ː ʝuɱ bɨɴʑɔ bɔɴ ɮiː ɯɨɕɔɭ ʕɨɧɦɥʋɨ hʁɔ̃ dɨ̈ʁʈɪ ɱʀɑɨʨ. ɟɛɴɖɑʊ ɬɔɨʒɑɥ ʡɞɲɑ ɖɑʀʦ ʂɨɽɨ ɓʀʌðʌʜħʉɗ]
Yes, I know the phonology is unlike English. They joined words together to make it shorter, a common feature in their language.

Birdlang wrote:[ă̙ː ʝuɱ bɨɴʑɔ bɔɴ ɮiː ɯɨɕɔɭ ʕɨɧɦɥʋɨ hʁɔ̃ dɨ̈ʁʈɪ ɱʀɑɨʨ. ɟɛɴɖɑʊ ɬɔɨʒɑɥ ʡɞɲɑ ɖɑʀʦ ʂɨɽɨ ɓʀʌðʌʜħʉɗ]
Yes, I know the phonology is unlike English. They joined words together to make it shorter, a common feature in their language.

I hope this is a jokelang, because that phonology looks like a literal attempt to use every weird symbol on the IPA chart. I thought Klingon was unnaturalistic... Also, you're supposed have them read it as-is, not with grammatical features added from other languages, otherwise my language would say "they with the reason the conscience-and endowed are" or something like that.

Xioran
'ɔlu ˈhjuməni ˈbi.ĩs 'äru 'bɔni fri 'ãdi ˈikwəlu ĩ ˈdeginə'ti 'ãdi rajts. dej 'äru ẽˈdawdi wef ˈrizəni 'ãdi ˈkãʃẽs 'ãdi ʃodi 'äkiti tuˈwɔdis 'wəni əˈnəvə ĩ ə isˈperəti ɔf ˈbrəvəˌhudi.

HoskhMatriarch wrote:

Birdlang wrote:[ă̙ː ʝuɱ bɨɴʑɔ bɔɴ ɮiː ɯɨɕɔɭ ʕɨɧɦɥʋɨ hʁɔ̃ dɨ̈ʁʈɪ ɱʀɑɨʨ. ɟɛɴɖɑʊ ɬɔɨʒɑɥ ʡɞɲɑ ɖɑʀʦ ʂɨɽɨ ɓʀʌðʌʜħʉɗ]
Yes, I know the phonology is unlike English. They joined words together to make it shorter, a common feature in their language.

I hope this is a jokelang, because that phonology looks like a literal attempt to use every weird symbol on the IPA chart. I thought Klingon was unnaturalistic... Also, you're supposed have them read it as-is, not with grammatical features added from other languages, otherwise my language would say "they with the reason the conscience-and endowed are" or something like that.

But it is not a grammatical feature, but a phonetic feature.

All4Ɇn wrote:Not a translation so much as a IPA transciption. How would someone with a thick (stereotypical if you want) accent of your conlang pronounce the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in English while still managing to make it at least somewhat understandable?

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Avantimannish

allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.

elemtilas wrote:allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.

I would recommend not putting IPA in italics, as it makes [a] and [ɑ] very difficult to tell apart: a a ɑ ɑ

GrandPiano wrote:

elemtilas wrote:allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.

I would recommend not putting IPA in italics, as it makes [a] and [ɑ] very difficult to tell apart: a a ɑ ɑ

I guess it depends on your computer or browser or font or something, since those look quite distinct to me.

shimobaatar wrote:

GrandPiano wrote:

elemtilas wrote:allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.

I would recommend not putting IPA in italics, as it makes [a] and [ɑ] very difficult to tell apart: a a ɑ ɑ

I guess it depends on your computer or browser or font or something, since those look quite distinct to me.

Agreed, but it's an easy fix!