Kinship terms

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k1234567890y
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by k1234567890y »

masako wrote:
k1234567890y wrote::con: Lonmai Luna

Lonmai Luna has a very simple kinship system:

- kolcel / celo - a parent or any relative belonging to the same generation of the parent(s) of the speaker.
- alcel / yalcel - a sibling or any relative belonging to the same generation of the speaker themself
- ilacel - an offspring or any relative belonging to the same generation of the the offspring(s) of the speaker.
No grandparents or grandchildren?
ah, nice suggestion of the lexical gaps, maybe I should create terms for them too...
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by eldin raigmore »

(To motivate this post, you may want to read https://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2 ... 35#p307235, too.)
Adpihi and Reptigan have classificatory kinterm systems, for the most part; more specifically they have systems of the subtype commonly associated with prescriptive marriage systems.
Usually the subtype of classificatory kinterm systems I’m talking about are distinguished by having FB=F and MZ=M; that is, usually people speaking these languages call Father’s Brothers (FB) by the same term they call Fathers, and call Mother’s Sisters (MZ) by the same term they call Mothers.
Spoiler:
In fact they also call every male relative’s brother by the same term they call that relative, and call every female relative’s sister by the same term they call that relative.
So they call a husband’s brother “husband” HB=H and call a wife’s sister “wife” WZ=W.
But also, father’s wife is mother FW=M and mother’s husband is father MH=F,
and spouse’s child is child HS=S WS=S HD=D WD=D
and parent’s child is sibling FS=B MS=B FD=Z MD=Z;
so brother and half-brother and step-brother are all just “brother”,
and sister and half-sister and step-sister are all just “sister”.

But also, parallel-cousins count as siblings.
My father’s brother is my father, so my father’s brother’s son is my father’s son is my brother, and my father’s brother’s daughter is my father’s daughter is my sister;
And likewise my MZ is my M, so my MZS is my MS is my brother and my MZD is my mother’s daughter is my sister.

....

However I have identified an occasional, circumstantial, need, for their languages to be able to identify “actual” mother or fathers as opposed to classificatory mothers or fathers; and “actual” half-brothers and half-sisters as opposed to classificatory half-siblings; and parallel cousins as opposed to brothers and sisters; and so on.

These are needed only when talking about what to name your kids, or who to invite to be godparents at the naming ceremony, or who not to marry.


From here on in this post all the kinships will be “actual” rather than classificatory.

Certain second-cousins and parallel-cousins and half-siblings, shouldn’t marry certain parallel-cousins and half siblings.
Edit: I can summarize it thusly.
Two men who share an actual greatgrandfather or an actual granduncle need to be cautious about marrying two women who share an actual grandfather or an actual uncle.
And two women who share an actual greatgrandmother or an actual grandaunt need to be cautious about marrying two men who share an actual grandmother or an actual aunt.
If such a pair of married couples is formed, they need to be careful about duplicating the entire individual names of their offspring.
Edit:
Spoiler:
The two most worrisome(?) combinations would probably be:
Two men with the same FFF marry two women with the same FF
Two women with the same MMM marry two men with the same MM
They’d be obliged to give their firstborn sons in the first case, or firstborn daughters in the second case, entirely identical individual names. Although if the husbands were not actual halfbrothers and the wives were not actual halfsisters, perhaps the offspring wouldn’t have all three clan-names in common?

The next two would probably be:
Two men with the same MFF marry two women with the same MF
Two women with the same FMM marry two men with the same FM
But for all I know they could figure out a way around the problems that poses, without too much violence to their traditions. I’ll have to think about it.
Edit: Corrections!
Due to recent revisions in the naming systems, the major caveats will be:
Two men with the same FF shouldn’t marry two women with the same FMF
and
Two women with the same MM shouldn’t marry two men with the same MFM.
Spoiler:
Two men with the same actual FFF shouldn’t marry two women with the same actual FF
Two men with the same MFF shouldn’t marry two women with the same MF
Two men with the same FMF shouldn’t marry two women with the same FM
Two men with the same MMF shouldn’t marry two women with the same MM

And

Two women with the same MMM shouldn’t marry two men with the same MM
Two women with the same FMM shouldn’t marry two men with the same FM
Two women with the same MFM shouldn’t marry two men with the same MF
Two women with the same FFM shouldn’t marry two men with the same FF

So under certain conditions certain actual second-cousins (or half-second-parallel-cousins, maybe?) of a given sex, shouldn’t marry two parallel-cousins of the other sex.

But also;
Two men with the same FF or FM shouldn’t marry two women with the same Father;
Two men with the same MF or MM shouldn’t marry two women with the same Mother;
And likewise two women who are parallel-half-cousins because their fathers were actual half-brothers, shouldn’t marry two men who are agnate half-brothers; and two women who are actual parallel-cousins because their mother’s were half-sisters, shouldn’t marry two men who are actual enate (ie uterine) half-brothers.
...

I hope I didn’t screw up any of that by trying to simplify it in my head as I was typing it.

....

If so I’ll correct and/or simplify and/or condense it later!
I hope!
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 20 Oct 2023 02:41, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Flavia »

:con: Galactic Creole
Father - /ə̀ːàã/ ìùun
Mother - /ə̃ːàã/ inùun
Son - /ã̀/ ùn
Daughter - /ã́á/ únú
Uncle - /aːə̃́əː/ uuínii
Aunt - /ã́/ ún
Brother - /ə́ːə̃àːã/ ííinùùun
Sister - /ə̀á/ ìú
Grandfather - /ə̀ːàãə̀ːàãə̃̀/ ììùunììùunìn
Grandmother - /ə̃ːàãə̃ːàãà/ inùuninùunù
Grandson - /ã̀ã̀ə̃̀/ ùnùnìn
Granddaughter - /ã́áã́áà/ únú.únúù
All terms can be formed by compounding, for example "uncle" can be replaced by /ə̀ːàã+ə́ːə̃àːã+ə̃̀/ (father+brother+GEN.MASC).
There can exist words as "an uncle of a daughter of a son of a brother of a aunt of the father" (/ə̀ːàãã́ə̃̀ə́ːə̃àːãàã̀ə̃̀ã́áə̃̀aːə̃́əːà/).
EDIT:
Also:
Husband - /àə̀ːə̃́/ ùììín
Wife - /əːaə̀ː/ iiuìì
XIPA
:pol: > :eng: > :esp: > :lat: > :fra: > :por: > :deu:
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by prettydragoon »

:con: Rireinutire

Kinship terms in Rireinutire are somewhat different from those of Human languages due to the Rireinukave biology, to wit, only the females of the species are sapient.

nene - birthsister, birthmother's daughter
nini - cosister, birthmother's wife's daughter
roni - brother, birthmother's son

emo - birthmother, parent who gave birth to ego
tima - comother, birthmother's wife
ñene - sire, male parent

poya - birthdaughter, ego's daughter
sana - codaughter, ego's wife's daughter
royo - son

seya - aunt, birthmother's birthsister
sama - aunt, birthmother's cosister, comother's sister; also polite address for any stranger

señu - (female) cousin

nevi - niece, birthsister's birthdaughter
nimu - niece, cosister's birthdaughter

mumo - grandmother, birthmother's birthmother
muma - grandmother, birthmother's comother
vuki - grandmother, comother's birthmother
vuma - grandmother, comother's comother

maño - granddaughter, birthdaughter's birthdaughter
maka - granddaughter, codaughter's birthdaughter
mise - granddaughter, birthdaughter's codaughter
vesa - granddaughter, codaughter's codaughter

haha - wife

raño - sister-in-law, sister's wife
nato - sister-in-law, wife's birthsister
kiti - sister-in-law, wife's cosister
kari - sister-in-law, wife's sister's wife

oka - mother-in-law, wife's birthmother
nopi - mother-in-law, wife's comother

mini - daughter-in-law, birthdaughter's wife
vevi - daughter-in-law, codaughter's wife

mari - granddaughter-in-law, daughter's birthdaughter's wife
iri - granddaughter-in-law, daughter's codaughter's wife

ravi - niece-in-law, sister's wife's birthdaughter

As is herein more plainly depicted.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Arayaz »

GrandPiano wrote: 10 May 2016 02:56 How does your lang divide up kinship terms? Is it similar to English, simple like Hawaiian, insane like the Chinese languages?
You call Chinese kinship terms "insane" ... read up on Cherokee, or Crow.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Knox Adjacent »

Considering Chinese kinship is an example of the extremely expansive Sundanese kinship, and Crow and Iroquois kinship are defined by patterns of mergers, you could explain what you find insane about them.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Arayaz »

Knox Adjacent wrote: 12 Aug 2023 08:59 Considering Chinese kinship is an example of the extremely expansive Sundanese kinship, and Crow and Iroquois kinship are defined by patterns of mergers, you could explain what you find insane about them.
Those very mergers.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Knox Adjacent »

So everything between polar opposites Hawaiian and Sundanese blows your mind?
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Arayaz »

Knox Adjacent wrote: 12 Aug 2023 22:44 So everything between polar opposites Hawaiian and Sundanese blows your mind?
No. It is the specific pattern of the mergers in, say, Iroquois that is interesting, NOT their existence in and of itself. I suggest you read up on it. Mark Rosenfelder discusses it in Advanced Language Construction, I think.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Knox Adjacent »

I know what they are. I just don't see the insanity.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Khemehekis »

Kankonian:

mother: helemas
father: hoimas
parents: homoses
sister: zwaniz (pl. zwanzu)
brother: zhered (pl. zherdu)
sibling: surten (pl. surtei)
twin sister: bamzwaniz (pl. bamzwanzu)
twin brother: bamzhered (pl. bamzherdu)
wife/husband: ashelti
daughter: shara
son: yed
child: noto
aunt/uncle (parent's sibling): ladan
aunt/uncle (parent's sibling's spouse): mesim
niece/nephew (sibling's child): elfom
niece/nephew (spouse's sibling's child): herang
female cousin: mera
male cousin: kanwir
cousin: shaniz
female cousin on one's mother's side: mimera
male cousin on one's mother's side: mikanwir
cousin on one's mother's side: mishaniz
female cousin on one's father's side: hamera
male cousin on one's father's side: hakanwir
cousin on one's father's side: hashaniz
grandmother: emihelemas
grandfather: emihoimas
grandparents: emihomoses
granddaughter: obishara
grandson: obiyed
grandchild: obinoto
great-grandmother: emiemihelemas
great-grandfather: emiemihoimas
great-grandparents: emiemihomoses
great-granddaughter: obiobishara
great-grandson: obiobiyed
great-grandchildren: obiobinoto
great-aunt/great-uncle: emiladan
cousin once removed: shyudan
cousin twice removed: bamshyudan
cousin thrice removed: emshyudan
sister-in-law (spouse's sister): dzhemal
brother-in-law (spouse's brother): seres
sibling-in-law (spouse's sibling): dzhemes
sister-in-law (sibling's wife): pola
brother-in-law (sibling's husband): tomus
sibling-in-law (sibling's spouse): polus
sister-in-law (spouse's sibling's wife): eyeni
brother-in-law (spouse's sibling's husband): dondar
sibling-in-law (spouse's sibling's spouse): eyendar
mother-in-law: shefri
father-in-law: tarmat
parent-in-law: shefmat
daughter-in-law: selmi
son-in-law: dzheisi
child-in-law: selsi
in-laws: sheltshtanzes
stepmother: hevuhelemas
stepfather: hevuhoimas
stepparents: hevuhomoses
stepdaughter: hevushara
stepson: hevuyed
stepchild: hevunoto
stepsister: hevuzwaniz (pl. hevuzwanzu)
stepbrother: hevuzhered (pl. hevuzherdu)
stepsibling: hevusurten (pl. hevusurtei)
half-sister: bamiksizwaniz (pl. bamiksizwanzu)
half-brother: bamiksizhered (pl. bamiksizherdu)
half-sibling: bamiksisurten (pl. bamiksisurtei)
significant other, life partner: mabekad
co-wife/co-husband: muyeashelti (muyea for short)
sperm donor: kherisezhobor (kheso for short)
fiancée/fiancé: lai
surrogate mother: aghemas
surrogate father: aghoimas
surrogate parent: aghomoset (exc.)
sister from the womb: zwaniz ab fubos (zaf for short)
brother from the womb: zhered ab fubos (zhaf for short)
sibling from the womb: surten (pl. surtei) ab fubos (saf for short)
widow/widower: okermi
semiwidow/semiwidower (polygamous person who has lost one/some spouse(s) but not all): minuokermi
angel mom: rentza
angel dad: tazga
broken-nester: emori

What do "sister from the womb" and "brother from the womb" mean? Read this.
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My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Arayaz »

Knox Adjacent wrote: 12 Aug 2023 23:25 I know what they are. I just don't see the insanity.
Using the same term across generations seems pretty interesting to me.
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Re: Kinship terms

Post by Knox Adjacent »

I'd received that opinion, yes. Sigh. O-wells.
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