ah, nice suggestion of the lexical gaps, maybe I should create terms for them too...masako wrote:No grandparents or grandchildren?k1234567890y wrote: Lonmai Luna
Lonmai Luna has a very simple kinship system:
- kolcel / celo - a parent or any relative belonging to the same generation of the parent(s) of the speaker.
- alcel / yalcel - a sibling or any relative belonging to the same generation of the speaker themself
- ilacel - an offspring or any relative belonging to the same generation of the the offspring(s) of the speaker.
Kinship terms
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Re: Kinship terms
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Kinship terms
(To motivate this post, you may want to read https://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2 ... 35#p307235, too.)
Adpihi and Reptigan have classificatory kinterm systems, for the most part; more specifically they have systems of the subtype commonly associated with prescriptive marriage systems.
Usually the subtype of classificatory kinterm systems I’m talking about are distinguished by having FB=F and MZ=M; that is, usually people speaking these languages call Father’s Brothers (FB) by the same term they call Fathers, and call Mother’s Sisters (MZ) by the same term they call Mothers.
so brother and half-brother and step-brother are all just “brother”,
and sister and half-sister and step-sister are all just “sister”.
But also, parallel-cousins count as siblings.
My father’s brother is my father, so my father’s brother’s son is my father’s son is my brother, and my father’s brother’s daughter is my father’s daughter is my sister;
And likewise my MZ is my M, so my MZS is my MS is my brother and my MZD is my mother’s daughter is my sister.
....
However I have identified an occasional, circumstantial, need, for their languages to be able to identify “actual” mother or fathers as opposed to classificatory mothers or fathers; and “actual” half-brothers and half-sisters as opposed to classificatory half-siblings; and parallel cousins as opposed to brothers and sisters; and so on.
These are needed only when talking about what to name your kids, or who to invite to be godparents at the naming ceremony, or who not to marry.
From here on in this post all the kinships will be “actual” rather than classificatory.
Certain second-cousins and parallel-cousins and half-siblings, shouldn’t marry certain parallel-cousins and half siblings.
...
I hope I didn’t screw up any of that by trying to simplify it in my head as I was typing it.
....
If so I’ll correct and/or simplify and/or condense it later!
I hope!
Adpihi and Reptigan have classificatory kinterm systems, for the most part; more specifically they have systems of the subtype commonly associated with prescriptive marriage systems.
Usually the subtype of classificatory kinterm systems I’m talking about are distinguished by having FB=F and MZ=M; that is, usually people speaking these languages call Father’s Brothers (FB) by the same term they call Fathers, and call Mother’s Sisters (MZ) by the same term they call Mothers.
Spoiler:
and sister and half-sister and step-sister are all just “sister”.
But also, parallel-cousins count as siblings.
My father’s brother is my father, so my father’s brother’s son is my father’s son is my brother, and my father’s brother’s daughter is my father’s daughter is my sister;
And likewise my MZ is my M, so my MZS is my MS is my brother and my MZD is my mother’s daughter is my sister.
....
However I have identified an occasional, circumstantial, need, for their languages to be able to identify “actual” mother or fathers as opposed to classificatory mothers or fathers; and “actual” half-brothers and half-sisters as opposed to classificatory half-siblings; and parallel cousins as opposed to brothers and sisters; and so on.
These are needed only when talking about what to name your kids, or who to invite to be godparents at the naming ceremony, or who not to marry.
From here on in this post all the kinships will be “actual” rather than classificatory.
Certain second-cousins and parallel-cousins and half-siblings, shouldn’t marry certain parallel-cousins and half siblings.
Edit: I can summarize it thusly.
Two men who share an actual greatgrandfather or an actual granduncle need to be cautious about marrying two women who share an actual grandfather or an actual uncle.
And two women who share an actual greatgrandmother or an actual grandaunt need to be cautious about marrying two men who share an actual grandmother or an actual aunt.
If such a pair of married couples is formed, they need to be careful about duplicating the entire individual names of their offspring.
Two men who share an actual greatgrandfather or an actual granduncle need to be cautious about marrying two women who share an actual grandfather or an actual uncle.
And two women who share an actual greatgrandmother or an actual grandaunt need to be cautious about marrying two men who share an actual grandmother or an actual aunt.
If such a pair of married couples is formed, they need to be careful about duplicating the entire individual names of their offspring.
Edit:
Spoiler:
Edit: Corrections!
Due to recent revisions in the naming systems, the major caveats will be:
Two men with the same FF shouldn’t marry two women with the same FMF
and
Two women with the same MM shouldn’t marry two men with the same MFM.
Due to recent revisions in the naming systems, the major caveats will be:
Two men with the same FF shouldn’t marry two women with the same FMF
and
Two women with the same MM shouldn’t marry two men with the same MFM.
Spoiler:
I hope I didn’t screw up any of that by trying to simplify it in my head as I was typing it.
....
If so I’ll correct and/or simplify and/or condense it later!
I hope!
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 20 Oct 2023 02:41, edited 2 times in total.
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
Re: Kinship terms
Galactic Creole
Father - /ə̀ːàã/ ìùun
Mother - /ə̃ːàã/ inùun
Son - /ã̀/ ùn
Daughter - /ã́á/ únú
Uncle - /aːə̃́əː/ uuínii
Aunt - /ã́/ ún
Brother - /ə́ːə̃àːã/ ííinùùun
Sister - /ə̀á/ ìú
Grandfather - /ə̀ːàãə̀ːàãə̃̀/ ììùunììùunìn
Grandmother - /ə̃ːàãə̃ːàãà/ inùuninùunù
Grandson - /ã̀ã̀ə̃̀/ ùnùnìn
Granddaughter - /ã́áã́áà/ únú.únúù
All terms can be formed by compounding, for example "uncle" can be replaced by /ə̀ːàã+ə́ːə̃àːã+ə̃̀/ (father+brother+GEN.MASC).
There can exist words as "an uncle of a daughter of a son of a brother of a aunt of the father" (/ə̀ːàãã́ə̃̀ə́ːə̃àːãàã̀ə̃̀ã́áə̃̀aːə̃́əːà/).
EDIT:
Also:
Husband - /àə̀ːə̃́/ ùììín
Wife - /əːaə̀ː/ iiuìì
Father - /ə̀ːàã/ ìùun
Mother - /ə̃ːàã/ inùun
Son - /ã̀/ ùn
Daughter - /ã́á/ únú
Uncle - /aːə̃́əː/ uuínii
Aunt - /ã́/ ún
Brother - /ə́ːə̃àːã/ ííinùùun
Sister - /ə̀á/ ìú
Grandfather - /ə̀ːàãə̀ːàãə̃̀/ ììùunììùunìn
Grandmother - /ə̃ːàãə̃ːàãà/ inùuninùunù
Grandson - /ã̀ã̀ə̃̀/ ùnùnìn
Granddaughter - /ã́áã́áà/ únú.únúù
All terms can be formed by compounding, for example "uncle" can be replaced by /ə̀ːàã+ə́ːə̃àːã+ə̃̀/ (father+brother+GEN.MASC).
There can exist words as "an uncle of a daughter of a son of a brother of a aunt of the father" (/ə̀ːàãã́ə̃̀ə́ːə̃àːãàã̀ə̃̀ã́áə̃̀aːə̃́əːà/).
EDIT:
Also:
Husband - /àə̀ːə̃́/ ùììín
Wife - /əːaə̀ː/ iiuìì
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Re: Kinship terms
Rireinutire
Kinship terms in Rireinutire are somewhat different from those of Human languages due to the Rireinukave biology, to wit, only the females of the species are sapient.
nene - birthsister, birthmother's daughter
nini - cosister, birthmother's wife's daughter
roni - brother, birthmother's son
emo - birthmother, parent who gave birth to ego
tima - comother, birthmother's wife
ñene - sire, male parent
poya - birthdaughter, ego's daughter
sana - codaughter, ego's wife's daughter
royo - son
seya - aunt, birthmother's birthsister
sama - aunt, birthmother's cosister, comother's sister; also polite address for any stranger
señu - (female) cousin
nevi - niece, birthsister's birthdaughter
nimu - niece, cosister's birthdaughter
mumo - grandmother, birthmother's birthmother
muma - grandmother, birthmother's comother
vuki - grandmother, comother's birthmother
vuma - grandmother, comother's comother
maño - granddaughter, birthdaughter's birthdaughter
maka - granddaughter, codaughter's birthdaughter
mise - granddaughter, birthdaughter's codaughter
vesa - granddaughter, codaughter's codaughter
haha - wife
raño - sister-in-law, sister's wife
nato - sister-in-law, wife's birthsister
kiti - sister-in-law, wife's cosister
kari - sister-in-law, wife's sister's wife
oka - mother-in-law, wife's birthmother
nopi - mother-in-law, wife's comother
mini - daughter-in-law, birthdaughter's wife
vevi - daughter-in-law, codaughter's wife
mari - granddaughter-in-law, daughter's birthdaughter's wife
iri - granddaughter-in-law, daughter's codaughter's wife
ravi - niece-in-law, sister's wife's birthdaughter
As is herein more plainly depicted.
Kinship terms in Rireinutire are somewhat different from those of Human languages due to the Rireinukave biology, to wit, only the females of the species are sapient.
nene - birthsister, birthmother's daughter
nini - cosister, birthmother's wife's daughter
roni - brother, birthmother's son
emo - birthmother, parent who gave birth to ego
tima - comother, birthmother's wife
ñene - sire, male parent
poya - birthdaughter, ego's daughter
sana - codaughter, ego's wife's daughter
royo - son
seya - aunt, birthmother's birthsister
sama - aunt, birthmother's cosister, comother's sister; also polite address for any stranger
señu - (female) cousin
nevi - niece, birthsister's birthdaughter
nimu - niece, cosister's birthdaughter
mumo - grandmother, birthmother's birthmother
muma - grandmother, birthmother's comother
vuki - grandmother, comother's birthmother
vuma - grandmother, comother's comother
maño - granddaughter, birthdaughter's birthdaughter
maka - granddaughter, codaughter's birthdaughter
mise - granddaughter, birthdaughter's codaughter
vesa - granddaughter, codaughter's codaughter
haha - wife
raño - sister-in-law, sister's wife
nato - sister-in-law, wife's birthsister
kiti - sister-in-law, wife's cosister
kari - sister-in-law, wife's sister's wife
oka - mother-in-law, wife's birthmother
nopi - mother-in-law, wife's comother
mini - daughter-in-law, birthdaughter's wife
vevi - daughter-in-law, codaughter's wife
mari - granddaughter-in-law, daughter's birthdaughter's wife
iri - granddaughter-in-law, daughter's codaughter's wife
ravi - niece-in-law, sister's wife's birthdaughter
As is herein more plainly depicted.
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Re: Kinship terms
You call Chinese kinship terms "insane" ... read up on Cherokee, or Crow.GrandPiano wrote: ↑10 May 2016 02:56 How does your lang divide up kinship terms? Is it similar to English, simple like Hawaiian, insane like the Chinese languages?
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Re: Kinship terms
Considering Chinese kinship is an example of the extremely expansive Sundanese kinship, and Crow and Iroquois kinship are defined by patterns of mergers, you could explain what you find insane about them.
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Re: Kinship terms
Those very mergers.Knox Adjacent wrote: ↑12 Aug 2023 08:59 Considering Chinese kinship is an example of the extremely expansive Sundanese kinship, and Crow and Iroquois kinship are defined by patterns of mergers, you could explain what you find insane about them.
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Re: Kinship terms
So everything between polar opposites Hawaiian and Sundanese blows your mind?
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Re: Kinship terms
No. It is the specific pattern of the mergers in, say, Iroquois that is interesting, NOT their existence in and of itself. I suggest you read up on it. Mark Rosenfelder discusses it in Advanced Language Construction, I think.Knox Adjacent wrote: ↑12 Aug 2023 22:44 So everything between polar opposites Hawaiian and Sundanese blows your mind?
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Re: Kinship terms
I know what they are. I just don't see the insanity.
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Re: Kinship terms
Kankonian:
mother: helemas
father: hoimas
parents: homoses
sister: zwaniz (pl. zwanzu)
brother: zhered (pl. zherdu)
sibling: surten (pl. surtei)
twin sister: bamzwaniz (pl. bamzwanzu)
twin brother: bamzhered (pl. bamzherdu)
wife/husband: ashelti
daughter: shara
son: yed
child: noto
aunt/uncle (parent's sibling): ladan
aunt/uncle (parent's sibling's spouse): mesim
niece/nephew (sibling's child): elfom
niece/nephew (spouse's sibling's child): herang
female cousin: mera
male cousin: kanwir
cousin: shaniz
female cousin on one's mother's side: mimera
male cousin on one's mother's side: mikanwir
cousin on one's mother's side: mishaniz
female cousin on one's father's side: hamera
male cousin on one's father's side: hakanwir
cousin on one's father's side: hashaniz
grandmother: emihelemas
grandfather: emihoimas
grandparents: emihomoses
granddaughter: obishara
grandson: obiyed
grandchild: obinoto
great-grandmother: emiemihelemas
great-grandfather: emiemihoimas
great-grandparents: emiemihomoses
great-granddaughter: obiobishara
great-grandson: obiobiyed
great-grandchildren: obiobinoto
great-aunt/great-uncle: emiladan
cousin once removed: shyudan
cousin twice removed: bamshyudan
cousin thrice removed: emshyudan
sister-in-law (spouse's sister): dzhemal
brother-in-law (spouse's brother): seres
sibling-in-law (spouse's sibling): dzhemes
sister-in-law (sibling's wife): pola
brother-in-law (sibling's husband): tomus
sibling-in-law (sibling's spouse): polus
sister-in-law (spouse's sibling's wife): eyeni
brother-in-law (spouse's sibling's husband): dondar
sibling-in-law (spouse's sibling's spouse): eyendar
mother-in-law: shefri
father-in-law: tarmat
parent-in-law: shefmat
daughter-in-law: selmi
son-in-law: dzheisi
child-in-law: selsi
in-laws: sheltshtanzes
stepmother: hevuhelemas
stepfather: hevuhoimas
stepparents: hevuhomoses
stepdaughter: hevushara
stepson: hevuyed
stepchild: hevunoto
stepsister: hevuzwaniz (pl. hevuzwanzu)
stepbrother: hevuzhered (pl. hevuzherdu)
stepsibling: hevusurten (pl. hevusurtei)
half-sister: bamiksizwaniz (pl. bamiksizwanzu)
half-brother: bamiksizhered (pl. bamiksizherdu)
half-sibling: bamiksisurten (pl. bamiksisurtei)
significant other, life partner: mabekad
co-wife/co-husband: muyeashelti (muyea for short)
sperm donor: kherisezhobor (kheso for short)
fiancée/fiancé: lai
surrogate mother: aghemas
surrogate father: aghoimas
surrogate parent: aghomoset (exc.)
sister from the womb: zwaniz ab fubos (zaf for short)
brother from the womb: zhered ab fubos (zhaf for short)
sibling from the womb: surten (pl. surtei) ab fubos (saf for short)
widow/widower: okermi
semiwidow/semiwidower (polygamous person who has lost one/some spouse(s) but not all): minuokermi
angel mom: rentza
angel dad: tazga
broken-nester: emori
What do "sister from the womb" and "brother from the womb" mean? Read this.
mother: helemas
father: hoimas
parents: homoses
sister: zwaniz (pl. zwanzu)
brother: zhered (pl. zherdu)
sibling: surten (pl. surtei)
twin sister: bamzwaniz (pl. bamzwanzu)
twin brother: bamzhered (pl. bamzherdu)
wife/husband: ashelti
daughter: shara
son: yed
child: noto
aunt/uncle (parent's sibling): ladan
aunt/uncle (parent's sibling's spouse): mesim
niece/nephew (sibling's child): elfom
niece/nephew (spouse's sibling's child): herang
female cousin: mera
male cousin: kanwir
cousin: shaniz
female cousin on one's mother's side: mimera
male cousin on one's mother's side: mikanwir
cousin on one's mother's side: mishaniz
female cousin on one's father's side: hamera
male cousin on one's father's side: hakanwir
cousin on one's father's side: hashaniz
grandmother: emihelemas
grandfather: emihoimas
grandparents: emihomoses
granddaughter: obishara
grandson: obiyed
grandchild: obinoto
great-grandmother: emiemihelemas
great-grandfather: emiemihoimas
great-grandparents: emiemihomoses
great-granddaughter: obiobishara
great-grandson: obiobiyed
great-grandchildren: obiobinoto
great-aunt/great-uncle: emiladan
cousin once removed: shyudan
cousin twice removed: bamshyudan
cousin thrice removed: emshyudan
sister-in-law (spouse's sister): dzhemal
brother-in-law (spouse's brother): seres
sibling-in-law (spouse's sibling): dzhemes
sister-in-law (sibling's wife): pola
brother-in-law (sibling's husband): tomus
sibling-in-law (sibling's spouse): polus
sister-in-law (spouse's sibling's wife): eyeni
brother-in-law (spouse's sibling's husband): dondar
sibling-in-law (spouse's sibling's spouse): eyendar
mother-in-law: shefri
father-in-law: tarmat
parent-in-law: shefmat
daughter-in-law: selmi
son-in-law: dzheisi
child-in-law: selsi
in-laws: sheltshtanzes
stepmother: hevuhelemas
stepfather: hevuhoimas
stepparents: hevuhomoses
stepdaughter: hevushara
stepson: hevuyed
stepchild: hevunoto
stepsister: hevuzwaniz (pl. hevuzwanzu)
stepbrother: hevuzhered (pl. hevuzherdu)
stepsibling: hevusurten (pl. hevusurtei)
half-sister: bamiksizwaniz (pl. bamiksizwanzu)
half-brother: bamiksizhered (pl. bamiksizherdu)
half-sibling: bamiksisurten (pl. bamiksisurtei)
significant other, life partner: mabekad
co-wife/co-husband: muyeashelti (muyea for short)
sperm donor: kherisezhobor (kheso for short)
fiancée/fiancé: lai
surrogate mother: aghemas
surrogate father: aghoimas
surrogate parent: aghomoset (exc.)
sister from the womb: zwaniz ab fubos (zaf for short)
brother from the womb: zhered ab fubos (zhaf for short)
sibling from the womb: surten (pl. surtei) ab fubos (saf for short)
widow/widower: okermi
semiwidow/semiwidower (polygamous person who has lost one/some spouse(s) but not all): minuokermi
angel mom: rentza
angel dad: tazga
broken-nester: emori
What do "sister from the womb" and "brother from the womb" mean? Read this.
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Kinship terms
Using the same term across generations seems pretty interesting to me.
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Re: Kinship terms
I'd received that opinion, yes. Sigh. O-wells.