Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

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Iyionaku
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Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

Post by Iyionaku »

A famous dialogue between Snape and Harry in Order of the Phoenix.

:eng:

Snape: You and Black are one of a kind, sentimental children forever whining how bitterly unfair your lives have been. Well it may have escaped your notice, but life - isn't - fair! Your blessed father knew that, in fact, he frequently sought saw to it!
Harry: My father was a great man!
Snape: Your father was a swine!
Last edited by Iyionaku on 19 Apr 2020 18:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian

Snape: Sa vutret è Black paʻatleʻibalit, îyiapetzentan cénvitan neyvalmèlein otcestanasbut a'vinquasén. Cèlt, can sao ʻilyquot dirakaidisvenut, cut a'vinquasé ci-stan-but! Sao pènomanquosǽl yiquinret, ètat cárat yòicúrutasplatet!
Harry: Reo pèno yibet broyayiva!
Snape: Sao pèno yibet coyad!

Spoiler:
Sa vutret è Black paʻatleʻibalit, îyiapetzentan cénvitan neyvalmèlein otcestanasbut a'vinquasén.
[sa ˈvutɾət ɛ blɛkᵊ paʔətˈleːʔɨˈbalɨt, ˈiːɕɨɐpətˌɟentɐn ˈkenvɨtɐn ˈneʃvɐlˈmɛlɛɪ̯n ɔ̈tɛˈstaːnɐʃ bʉt ɐˌʋiŋkɐˈseːn]
2SG INT and PROP totally-alike-COP.2PL, child-sentimental-PL REL.ANIM.3PL forever-whine-2PL how-unfair-COP.3SG.INAN DEF.INAN=life
You and Black are one of a kind, sentimental children forever whining how bitterly unfair your lives are.

Cèlt, can sao ʻilyquot dirakaidisvenut, cut a'vinquasé ci-stan-but!
[kɛlt, kɐn saʊ̯ ˈʔilʃkɔ̈‿dɨɾɐkaɪ̯ˈdisvənʉt, kʉt ɐˌʋiŋkɐˈseː kɨˈstanbʉt]
well, for 2SG.POSS attention COND-PROP-escape-COND.INV.3SG.INAN, but DEF.ANIM=life NEG-fair-COP.3SG.INAN
Well it may have escaped your notice, but life - isn't - fair!

Sao pènomanquosǽl yiquinret, ètat cárat yòicúrutasplatet!
[saʊ̯ ˈpɛnɔ̈mɐŋkɔ̈ˈsœːl ɕɨˈkinːɪ̯ət ˈɛtɐt‿ˈaːɾɐt ʃɔʊ̯ˌkuːɾʉtɐsˈplaːtət]
2SG.POSS father-blessed PST-know-3SG, indeed for-DEM PST-frequently-see_about-3SG
Your blessed father knew that, in fact, he frequently sought it!

Reo pèno yibet broyayiva!
[ˈɾeː.ɔ̈ ˈpɛnɔ̈ ˈɕiːbə‿ˈbɾoːʃɐˈɕiːʋɐ]
1SG.POSS father PST-COP.3SG man-great
My father was a great man!

Sao pèno yibet coyad!
[saʊ̯ ˈpɛnɔ̈ ˈɕiːbət‿ˈoːʃɐd]
2SG.POSS father PST-COP.3SG swine
Your father was a swine!


USAGE NOTE: in everyday language, vinquasé "life" is conceptual gender. Only in archaic contexts - and to emphasize - it is used with animate gender. Interestingly enough, Snape still declines it with the inanimate form of the copula verb, but.
New words for this challenge (a lot, as Snape speaks in a very high register that's not well developed yet):
Spoiler:

iapetzentas [ˈɪ̯aːpətˌʝentɐʃ] - sentimental
Etymology: loan translation from sentimental: iapet "emotion" + zenta "to swing" + adjectivizer -as

cestanas [kəˈstaːnɐʃ] - unfair
Etymology: negation prefix ce- + stan "fair, just" + additional (redundant) adjectivizer -as

cèlt [kɛlt] - well, you see, surprise (particle)
Etymology: shortened of celit "back; again"

kaidisa [kaɪ̯ˈdiːsɐ] - to slip, to escape, to miss
Etymology: kaida "to hit" + failure infix -dis- (very rare, only in formal contexts)

manquosǽl [ˈmankɔ̈sɐs] - blessed, praised by the gods
Etymology: from MANX, the highest god in Yélian mythology + quosa "to bring upon; to shield with light" (very literal to archaic) + rare and archaic adjectivizer -el

ocúrutas [ɔ̈ˈkuːɾʉtɐʃ] - often, frequently, repeatedly
Etymology: continuative prefix oc- + cura "to come" + inverse inanimate 3sg suffix -ut + adjectivizer -as
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Dormouse559
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Re: Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

Post by Dormouse559 »

Iyionaku wrote:
19 Apr 2020 12:02
Your blessed father knew that, in fact, he frequently sought it!
This part is slightly different: "… he frequently saw to it!"

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Re: Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

Post by Iyionaku »

Dormouse559 wrote:
19 Apr 2020 18:01
Iyionaku wrote:
19 Apr 2020 12:02
Your blessed father knew that, in fact, he frequently sought it!
This part is slightly different: "… he frequently saw to it!"
Thank you Dormouse! I listened to the English version multiple times in YouTube and still couldn't understand it properly. The auto translations said thought it, which it clearly wasn't, and from my knowledge of the German version I thought that "sought" might be fitting. In fact, I didn't know the phrase "to see to" until now.
Thankfully, as for Yélian I translated from German, I don't need to adjust that [:)]
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Imralu
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Re: Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

Post by Imralu »

I don't know enough of the Potterverse to know which forms of pronouns to use. I'm using inaccessible pronouns for all. Does that seem right? (Harry's mention of his own father would be accessible, if he were still alive, but I think inaccessible pronouns are used with the dead. The perfect marker ti also has to be used with pronouns referring to deceased people.)

Also, is Black present for this exchange? That would also make a difference to how 2P is translated.

Iliaqu:

Zeneibi: O mios ahi vu ju Balaka lo tavi oieloho za hua vinile vejo tiezo bahe kamela ixu le giuui. To, tehi kka huxa ieui, mies a le lau ikka mela. Ti maiu xiie matta ju ti nanas auia guui. Ahe matta zuo niu niuo xiie ju ti!
Snape: You and Black are one of a kind, sentimental children forever whining how bitterly unfair your lives have been. Well it may have escaped your notice, but life - isn't - fair! Your blessed father knew that, in fact, he frequently saw to it!

Heui: Hoiaha ju ti nana guni!
Harry: My father was a great man!

Zeneibi: Zatiu ju ti nana guui!
Your father was a swine!


Spoiler:

Code: Select all

o      mio-s       ahi       vu         ju             Balaka 
entity selfsame-EP type;kind NOM.2S.ICS NOM.3S.DEF.ICS black 

lo  tavi  o-ielo-hV       za  hua    vinile   
ADV child ORN-emotion-INT REL always complain 

vejo  ti-ezo          bahe      kamela ixu             le        g-iuui
TOP.C former;PRF-PRES very.EMOT unfair NOM.3S.DEF.INAN situation COP-GEN.2P.ICS

to        | tehi  kka hu-xa       ieui
then;thus | maybe not move-inside DAT.2P.ICS

mie-s  a                 le        lau  i-kka    mela
but-EP NOM.3S.NSPEC.INAN situation live PRED-not fair

ti         maiu xiie                 matta ju             ti         nana-s          auia        g-uui
PRF;former know ACC.3S.DEF.INAN.PROX true  NOM.3S.DEF.ICS PRF;former father;uncle-EP resplendent COP-GEN.2S.ICS

ahe    matta zuo   niu   niuo        xiie                 ju
indeed true  NOM.C often make.happen ACC.3S.DEF.INAN.PROX NOM.3S.DEF.ICS

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

hoia-hV        ju             ti         nana         g-uni
good;moral-INT NOM.3S.DEF.ICS PRF;former father;uncle COP-GEN.1S.ICS
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

zat<i>u         ju             ti         nana         g-uui
urinate.on<GDV> NOM.3S.DEF.ICS PRF;former father;uncle COP-GEN.2S.ICS

(Literally: Your father was one who ought to be pissed on. Most pejoratives in Iliaqu are about what someone thinks should be done to the person.)
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

Post by Dormouse559 »

Imralu wrote:
21 Apr 2020 22:22
I don't know enough of the Potterverse to know which forms of pronouns to use. I'm using inaccessible pronouns for all. Does that seem right?
Mostly. Harry views Sirius Black as a kind of surrogate father or uncle, which seems like accessible territory, but he doesn't talk about Black in this exchange.

But the distinction also applies to subordinates/superiors, so it might be proper for a student like Harry and a teacher like Snape to assume the "stances" you mentioned. However, Harry isn't feeling especially respectful in this scene, so perhaps Snape would use the dominant stance while Harry would refuse to adopt the subordinate stance. Don't know if the pronouns in this passage would be able to demonstrate that.

But you know the distinction better than I do. Just some thoughts.

Imralu wrote:Also, is Black present for this exchange?
He isn't.

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Imralu
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Re: Your father was a Swine (Harry Potter dialogue)

Post by Imralu »

Dormouse559 wrote:
21 Apr 2020 23:10
Mostly. Harry views Sirius Black as a kind of surrogate father or uncle, which seems like accessible territory, but he doesn't talk about Black in this exchange.
Thanks!
Dormouse559 wrote:
21 Apr 2020 23:10
But the distinction also applies to subordinates/superiors, so it might be proper for a student like Harry and a teacher like Snape to assume the "stances" you mentioned. However, Harry isn't feeling especially respectful in this scene, so perhaps Snape would use the dominant stance while Harry would refuse to adopt the subordinate stance. Don't know if the pronouns in this passage would be able to demonstrate that.

But you know the distinction better than I do. Just some thoughts.
Yeah, that's an idea. It's kind of hard to imagine this in Ngolu culture though, but yes, the pronouns could demonstrate that. I can change all of Snapes references to Harry to accessible and leave Harry's own reference to himself (the "my") as inaccessible. I'll show the pronoun change below in red.
Dormouse559 wrote:
21 Apr 2020 23:10
Imralu wrote:Also, is Black present for this exchange?
He isn't.
Ah, that changes things. Instead of 2P, 2S 3S would be used. There's no linking conjunction or anything for this - simply two pronouns or noun phrases in the same case are understood with an "and". 2P is only really used in Iliaqu when all referents are present and being addressed. It can also be used with some referents absent if it is understood that those present are to pass on what is said (making them still kind of addressed, just by proxy). Actually, now that I've done this, I kind of really don't like it for the imbedded possessive phrases. Because both possessives have to be verbalised (with g-) in order to be subordinated to the possessum, this causes the need for xue which is an "and" used within a verb phrase. I might revise that in my grammar and make the separation strictly optional for clarity, but not obligatory.

Zeneibi: O mios ahi ua ju Balaka lo tavi oieloho za hua vinile vejo tiezo bahe kamela ixu le guue xue guji. To, tehi kka huxas eues eji, mies a le lau ikka mela. Ti maiu xiie matta ju ti nanas auia guue. Ahe matta zuo niu niuo xiie ju ti!
Snape: You and Black are one of a kind, sentimental children forever whining how bitterly unfair your lives have been. Well it may have escaped your notice, but life - isn't - fair! Your blessed father knew that, in fact, he frequently saw to it!

Heui: Hoiaha ju ti nana guni!
Harry: My father was a great man!

Zeneibi: Zatiu ju ti nana guue!
Your father was a swine!
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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