L'Étranger
L'Étranger
Here's a little prose poem by Charles Baudelaire which might be a good exercise.
French
— Qui aimes-tu le mieux, homme énigmatique, dis ? ton père, ta mère, ta sœur ou ton frère ?
— Je n’ai ni père, ni mère, ni sœur, ni frère.
— Tes amis ?
— Vous vous servez là d’une parole dont le sens m’est resté jusqu’à ce jour inconnu.
— Ta patrie ?
— J’ignore sous quelle latitude elle est située.
— La beauté ?
— Je l’aimerais volontiers, déesse et immortelle.
— L’or ?
— Je le hais comme vous haïssez Dieu.
— Eh ! qu’aimes-tu donc, extraordinaire étranger ?
— J’aime les nuages... les nuages qui passent… là-bas… les merveilleux nuages !
English
"Who do you love the most, enigmatic man? Tell me. Your father, your mother, your sister or your brother?"
"I have no father, nor mother, nor sister, nor brother."
"Your friends?"
"You use a word whose meaning, up to today, has been unknown to me."
"Your homeland?"
"I'm unaware of its latitude."
"Beauty?"
"I would love her gladly, a goddess and immortal."
"Gold?"
"I hate it like you hate God."
"Oh! What do you love then, extraordinary stranger?"
"I love the clouds... the clouds that pass... up there... the marvelous clouds!
Sicilian Norman
— Chi tì aimas miuz, ummu nigmatic, dies? Tun peru, ta mera, ta siror, ô tun freru?
— Gio nun ai ni peru, ni mera, ni siror, ni freru.
— Tis amìs?
— Vos sirvissez par ina parola di quei sens m’era, geschi zest gior, discunnì.
— Ta patria?
— Gio nun cunnois en cheḍḍa latitudini si post.
— La bialtè?
— Bien l’amiroa, diguessa et immurtel.
— L’or?
— Gio li gahis cumment vos gahissez Diu.
— Eh! Quei t'aimas dunc, struḍḍinair strangier?
— Gi’aim lus nibrès... lus nibrès chi passa... par loc... lus mirviòs nibrès!
EDIT: Added Dormouse's suggestions on the translations.
French
— Qui aimes-tu le mieux, homme énigmatique, dis ? ton père, ta mère, ta sœur ou ton frère ?
— Je n’ai ni père, ni mère, ni sœur, ni frère.
— Tes amis ?
— Vous vous servez là d’une parole dont le sens m’est resté jusqu’à ce jour inconnu.
— Ta patrie ?
— J’ignore sous quelle latitude elle est située.
— La beauté ?
— Je l’aimerais volontiers, déesse et immortelle.
— L’or ?
— Je le hais comme vous haïssez Dieu.
— Eh ! qu’aimes-tu donc, extraordinaire étranger ?
— J’aime les nuages... les nuages qui passent… là-bas… les merveilleux nuages !
English
"Who do you love the most, enigmatic man? Tell me. Your father, your mother, your sister or your brother?"
"I have no father, nor mother, nor sister, nor brother."
"Your friends?"
"You use a word whose meaning, up to today, has been unknown to me."
"Your homeland?"
"I'm unaware of its latitude."
"Beauty?"
"I would love her gladly, a goddess and immortal."
"Gold?"
"I hate it like you hate God."
"Oh! What do you love then, extraordinary stranger?"
"I love the clouds... the clouds that pass... up there... the marvelous clouds!
Sicilian Norman
— Chi tì aimas miuz, ummu nigmatic, dies? Tun peru, ta mera, ta siror, ô tun freru?
— Gio nun ai ni peru, ni mera, ni siror, ni freru.
— Tis amìs?
— Vos sirvissez par ina parola di quei sens m’era, geschi zest gior, discunnì.
— Ta patria?
— Gio nun cunnois en cheḍḍa latitudini si post.
— La bialtè?
— Bien l’amiroa, diguessa et immurtel.
— L’or?
— Gio li gahis cumment vos gahissez Diu.
— Eh! Quei t'aimas dunc, struḍḍinair strangier?
— Gi’aim lus nibrès... lus nibrès chi passa... par loc... lus mirviòs nibrès!
EDIT: Added Dormouse's suggestions on the translations.
Last edited by Pāṇini on 02 Aug 2020 16:03, edited 2 times in total.
天含青海道。城頭月千里。
/tʰiæn ɣɑm tsʰieŋ.hɑ́i dʱɑ́u ‖ ʑʱeŋ dʱəu ᵑgyæɾ tsʰiæn lí/
The sky swallows the road to Kokonor. On the Great Wall, a thousand miles of moonlight.
—/lí ɣɑ̀/ (李賀), tr. A. C. Graham
/tʰiæn ɣɑm tsʰieŋ.hɑ́i dʱɑ́u ‖ ʑʱeŋ dʱəu ᵑgyæɾ tsʰiæn lí/
The sky swallows the road to Kokonor. On the Great Wall, a thousand miles of moonlight.
—/lí ɣɑ̀/ (李賀), tr. A. C. Graham
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Re: L'Étranger
Hmm, interesting! It definitely gives one a lot to think about. On the English translation, I think "qu'aimes-tu" should be translated as "what do you love" rather than "who". And the "patrie" exchange is missing.
I hope this isn't the last we see of Sicilian Norman Looks really neat!
Something to note for those who can't read the French: The questioner addresses the stranger (l'étranger of the title) in familiar terms, like one uses for family and friends. But the stranger addresses the questioner in formal terms.
Silvish
« Ki ke t' ama lo myeô, òme sfinksa, dî ? Tyu parï, te marï, te seû ou tyu frarï ?
— Jh' e ne parï, ne marï, ne seû, ne frarï.
— Ti-z ami ?
— Vou vvou sservê lè d' un mô dont avoî d' ao joer d' yu jho konoisso pa lo senso.
— Ta patri ?
— Jho se pa a kinta latetuda k' â se treuva.
— La bravetà ?
— Jho l' amaroi preuf, dyaese e imortala.
— L' ô ?
— Jho l' amo pa, kome vou llyu Bondi.
— Eh ! kin ke t' ama alòra, ettranjhaî ekstrordenèryo ?
— Jh' amo la nnyeula … la nnyeula ki pasön … lyamon … la nnyeula mervilyeuza ! »
Glosses
Spoiler:
Notes and new/rethought vocabulary:
Spoiler:
Re: L'Étranger
Yélian
»Cibai pèno, poucibai méva ù nemia ù namo.«
»Sao ifren?«
»Agirei matay vit can rat natubut, na siy yéliun.«
»Sao acadiæsér?«
»Deo vetalinsé pès rat caipradvut.«
»Æ'lendan?«
»Diselivaino pi rat diávervit, a'Licenecolkaprès.«
»U'matir?«
»Rat arasut cet arasei a'devian.«
»Væ! Cubetál, pe iáverei, cilarorceniats o'devian?«
»Iáverai u'triyban... u'triyban vit advidanti... væ vendonais... u'triybævilan!«
Gloss:
Some interesting notes about the text:
New words for this challenge:
Edit: I omitted an entire paragraph!
»Pe afirtiáverei, broyaliýmalas? Rat iracas. Sao pèno, sao méva, sao nemia ù namo?«»Cibai pèno, poucibai méva ù nemia ù namo.«
»Sao ifren?«
»Agirei matay vit can rat natubut, na siy yéliun.«
»Sao acadiæsér?«
»Deo vetalinsé pès rat caipradvut.«
»Æ'lendan?«
»Diselivaino pi rat diávervit, a'Licenecolkaprès.«
»U'matir?«
»Rat arasut cet arasei a'devian.«
»Væ! Cubetál, pe iáverei, cilarorceniats o'devian?«
»Iáverai u'triyban... u'triyban vit advidanti... væ vendonais... u'triybævilan!«
Gloss:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Last edited by Iyionaku on 04 Aug 2020 13:58, edited 2 times in total.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: L'Étranger
I hope so too! Sicilian Norman, natively pateis, is still in its infancy. It's definitely weird. It's a descendant of Old Norman, but under heavy Southern Italian influence due to a bilingual Pateis-Sicilian population.Dormouse559 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2020 07:26 I hope this isn't the last we see of Sicilian Norman Looks really neat!
I really appreciate the suggestions, by the way. I've never really studied French, and I couldn't find a real translation, so I had to make do.
天含青海道。城頭月千里。
/tʰiæn ɣɑm tsʰieŋ.hɑ́i dʱɑ́u ‖ ʑʱeŋ dʱəu ᵑgyæɾ tsʰiæn lí/
The sky swallows the road to Kokonor. On the Great Wall, a thousand miles of moonlight.
—/lí ɣɑ̀/ (李賀), tr. A. C. Graham
/tʰiæn ɣɑm tsʰieŋ.hɑ́i dʱɑ́u ‖ ʑʱeŋ dʱəu ᵑgyæɾ tsʰiæn lí/
The sky swallows the road to Kokonor. On the Great Wall, a thousand miles of moonlight.
—/lí ɣɑ̀/ (李賀), tr. A. C. Graham
Re: L'Étranger
Caelian
"Zan Fanang üvëndar ëbol bye, bordyek lüdmot? Zan Raf Dyong tirraiwy. Bonnuip Zabyeng, mavvui Zabyeng, nommuin Zabyeng ubye nammuin Zabyeng?"
"Rar bonnenglyup, mavvenglyu, nommenglyun ëz nammenglyun bereyöi."
"Hivaruin Zabyeng?"
"Zan matjoz mab, Rahek kyawrom töbyan kyangrënël byü aljaping, bye."
"Agresed Zabyes?"
"Rar vitlosen Tabyas zordos kyangrënël byäi."
"Wanduim?"
"Rar Tang firnat tisüvdir, jäsdestyevëwy më kalkyënëm."
"Gongluiz?"
"Rar Tong ürsil jarsorel josdijewy Zabyer."
"Gosrësët! Pewy Zan Song üvdar bye, bordyek lüdmot?"
"Rar tarübyel juvuder... tarübyel zordagenkyop berjäiz... zordu... tarübyel züngüpat!"
Gloss:
I followed the convention that Dormouse described here: The questioner addresses the stranger in familiar terms (i.e. using nominative forms), while the stranger replies in the very formal 2nd vocative.
"Zan Fanang üvëndar ëbol bye, bordyek lüdmot? Zan Raf Dyong tirraiwy. Bonnuip Zabyeng, mavvui Zabyeng, nommuin Zabyeng ubye nammuin Zabyeng?"
"Rar bonnenglyup, mavvenglyu, nommenglyun ëz nammenglyun bereyöi."
"Hivaruin Zabyeng?"
"Zan matjoz mab, Rahek kyawrom töbyan kyangrënël byü aljaping, bye."
"Agresed Zabyes?"
"Rar vitlosen Tabyas zordos kyangrënël byäi."
"Wanduim?"
"Rar Tang firnat tisüvdir, jäsdestyevëwy më kalkyënëm."
"Gongluiz?"
"Rar Tong ürsil jarsorel josdijewy Zabyer."
"Gosrësët! Pewy Zan Song üvdar bye, bordyek lüdmot?"
"Rar tarübyel juvuder... tarübyel zordagenkyop berjäiz... zordu... tarübyel züngüpat!"
Gloss:
Spoiler:
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: L'Étranger
Paatherye
> "Kayan day mēthi nāmi, gugudhanphātā virasyē? Hrītari ner. Deye pīter, deya maytaran, deya wāsan ram deye frāthe?"
> "Nēgas ēku ēyeme sē pīter, sā maytaran, sīn waysan mū sīn frāthen."
> "Deyva khayren?"
> "Yāne veles dhre hrītame sē ūrdhe, they pamjancan aynī ner ēsme hemur vayime entī șesūyāhe."
> "Deykhā pātharim?"
> "Nēgas ēku waytheme jaye așānse."
> "Wēcan?"
> "Jā nayāmay ēku, sā nēșetīrpa hēran."
> "Pūti?"
> "Hā kādhas ēku, dēn yāne kaydhes Hēran."
> "Awu! Ērpi nāmi kesē day, tutusākar khēlinē?"
> "Nāmas ēku fē ārunan... treypay pēnyeme thanē ārunan... kāpu... fē ārunan mi șajanweldūn!"
Two notes in order to understand the text: as in the original, the questioner uses familiar language, even though he uses the formal honorative 2sg pronoun day. The stranger, however, uses the vocative form of the masculine 2sg pronoun, yāne. The correct way of approaching someone is its own chapter in Paatherye.
Also interesting: If you take a very close look at the IPA, you will see that even though both participants use the same language, the pronunciation is very much different: The questioner uses the standard vernacular pronunciation, while the stranger uses the very formal High Elfish pronunciation. I will soon create a blogpost over this.
New words for this challenge:
> "Kayan day mēthi nāmi, gugudhanphātā virasyē? Hrītari ner. Deye pīter, deya maytaran, deya wāsan ram deye frāthe?"
> "Nēgas ēku ēyeme sē pīter, sā maytaran, sīn waysan mū sīn frāthen."
> "Deyva khayren?"
> "Yāne veles dhre hrītame sē ūrdhe, they pamjancan aynī ner ēsme hemur vayime entī șesūyāhe."
> "Deykhā pātharim?"
> "Nēgas ēku waytheme jaye așānse."
> "Wēcan?"
> "Jā nayāmay ēku, sā nēșetīrpa hēran."
> "Pūti?"
> "Hā kādhas ēku, dēn yāne kaydhes Hēran."
> "Awu! Ērpi nāmi kesē day, tutusākar khēlinē?"
> "Nāmas ēku fē ārunan... treypay pēnyeme thanē ārunan... kāpu... fē ārunan mi șajanweldūn!"
Two notes in order to understand the text: as in the original, the questioner uses familiar language, even though he uses the formal honorative 2sg pronoun day. The stranger, however, uses the vocative form of the masculine 2sg pronoun, yāne. The correct way of approaching someone is its own chapter in Paatherye.
Also interesting: If you take a very close look at the IPA, you will see that even though both participants use the same language, the pronunciation is very much different: The questioner uses the standard vernacular pronunciation, while the stranger uses the very formal High Elfish pronunciation. I will soon create a blogpost over this.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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Re: L'Étranger
Rireinutire
~ ta yokuna ñami ramakayo· supeñara kave': maha suno': tano au emona· au timana· au nenena· au ninina:
~ ñau emona ukaseva· ñau timana· ñau nenena· ñau ninina:
~ tano merona:
~ ta kaki sunena nekava sakino kunusa sipayura sati maha iñananu yakava:
~ tano emoratona:
~ sano ravenasana nanakaseva:
~ yayaruna:
~ hana meiti ramakahuva· to hasena to siisanopona:
~ tarena:
~ sana vihukava ku ta hasena vihukave:
~ aa: ta to yokina ramakayo· iñakañohipe yika':
~ pivena ramakava··· kaki pivena saki mikava··· saha rahoha··· hiyehipe pivena::
Gloss:
Since Rireinutire lacks the T-V distinction, the only remaining clue that the questioner considers herself senior to her interlocutor is in the first line, when the questioner uses peremptory imperative maha suno' (1S-ADE tell-IMP) instead of polite imperative ta maha sunoka' (2S.NOM 1S-ADE tell-PRS-IMP).
Translation challenge 100/100
~ ta yokuna ñami ramakayo· supeñara kave': maha suno': tano au emona· au timana· au nenena· au ninina:
~ ñau emona ukaseva· ñau timana· ñau nenena· ñau ninina:
~ tano merona:
~ ta kaki sunena nekava sakino kunusa sipayura sati maha iñananu yakava:
~ tano emoratona:
~ sano ravenasana nanakaseva:
~ yayaruna:
~ hana meiti ramakahuva· to hasena to siisanopona:
~ tarena:
~ sana vihukava ku ta hasena vihukave:
~ aa: ta to yokina ramakayo· iñakañohipe yika':
~ pivena ramakava··· kaki pivena saki mikava··· saha rahoha··· hiyehipe pivena::
Gloss:
Spoiler:
Translation challenge 100/100
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Re: L'Étranger
And this makes prettydragoon and Rireinturie the very first ones to complete my translation challenge! Congrats!!!
I'm still lagging behind at
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Re: L'Étranger
Wow! Congratulations to prettydragoon!Üdj wrote: ↑06 Sep 2023 15:52And this makes prettydragoon and Rireinturie the very first ones to complete my translation challenge! Congrats!!!
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 88,000 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: L'Étranger
Üdj wrote: ↑06 Sep 2023 15:52And this makes prettydragoon and Rireinutire the very first ones to complete my translation challenge! Congrats!!!
Eee! ute earo: Thank you!
This is not a speed competition. I kept telling myself that but I just wouldn't listen.
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Re: L'Étranger
prettydragoon wrote: ↑07 Sep 2023 15:52Üdj wrote: ↑06 Sep 2023 15:52And this makes prettydragoon and Rireinutire the very first ones to complete my translation challenge! Congrats!!!Eee! ute earo: Thank you!This is not a speed competition. I kept telling myself that but I just wouldn't listen.
And sorry for misspelling
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Re: L'Étranger
No worries. I of course never make tyops or otehr misteaks.
Re: L'Étranger
Yorkish
Hwae gis tha liste mest, feʒ man? Tal us, tha father? Tha mither? Tha sister, els tha brither?
/ʍɛa̯ cɪs θə lɪst mɛst fɛi̯ man | tʰal əs θə ˈfaθər θə ˈmɪθər θə ˈsɪstər ɛls θə ˈprɪθər/
who AUX.PRS.2SG 2SG love most strange person | tell 1PL.OBL 2SG.OBL father 2SG.OBL mother 2SG.OBL sister or 2SG.OBL brother
Ʒ'ha inn father, ans mither, ans sister, ans brither.
/ça (ɪ)n ˈfaθər ans ˈmɪθər ans ˈsɪstər ans ˈprɪθər/
1SG=have NEG.DET father nor mother nor sister nor brother
Tha winner?
/θə ˈwɪnər/
2SG.OBL friend-PL
Tha has en ord at's marcing ʒ'hack fram til idaw scild.
/θa (ha)s ən ɒrt ats ˈmarcɪŋ çak fram tʰɪl ɪˈtɒː scɪlt/
2SG has-PRS.2SG IDEF word REL=POSS meaning 1SG=have=NEG up_until today understand-PST.PART
Tha hemland?
/θə ˈheːmˌlant/
2SG.OBL homeland
Ʒe gʒark witte hwilk klime at is in.
/jə cark wɪt ʍɪlk kʰlɛi̯m ət ɪs ɪn/
1SG AUX.PRS-NEG know which clime 3NSG be.PRS.3 in
Fairness?
/ˈfeːrnɪs/
beauty
Ʒe scild liste hen freeliʒ, ei githess oʒ oudothliʒ.
/jə scɪlt lɪst ən ˈfrɪə̯li | ə ˈcɪθəs ɒ uˈtɒθli/
1SG would love 3FSG.OBL free-ADV | IDEF goddess and un-death-ADV
Guld?
/kʊlt/
gold
Ʒe het at sam at tha hets Guth.
/jə hɛt ət sam ə θa hɛts kʊθ/
1SG hate 3NSG like REL 2SG hate-PRS.2SG God
O? Hwat gis tha liste syne, guith fremmen?
/ɒ ʍat cɪs θə lɪst sɛɪ̯n cʏə̯θ frɛmən/
INTJ what AUX.PRS.2SG 2SG love then good stranger
Ʒe list the scyer.... the scyer at gang... up thar... the scyer fantastisc!!
/jə lɪst θə scɛɪ̯ər θə scɛɪ̯ər ə kaŋk ʊp θar θə scɛɪ̯ər fanˈtʰastɪsc/
1SG love DEF cloud-PL | DEF cloud-PL REL travel up there | DEF cloud-PL fantastic
Hwae gis tha liste mest, feʒ man? Tal us, tha father? Tha mither? Tha sister, els tha brither?
/ʍɛa̯ cɪs θə lɪst mɛst fɛi̯ man | tʰal əs θə ˈfaθər θə ˈmɪθər θə ˈsɪstər ɛls θə ˈprɪθər/
who AUX.PRS.2SG 2SG love most strange person | tell 1PL.OBL 2SG.OBL father 2SG.OBL mother 2SG.OBL sister or 2SG.OBL brother
Ʒ'ha inn father, ans mither, ans sister, ans brither.
/ça (ɪ)n ˈfaθər ans ˈmɪθər ans ˈsɪstər ans ˈprɪθər/
1SG=have NEG.DET father nor mother nor sister nor brother
Tha winner?
/θə ˈwɪnər/
2SG.OBL friend-PL
Tha has en ord at's marcing ʒ'hack fram til idaw scild.
/θa (ha)s ən ɒrt ats ˈmarcɪŋ çak fram tʰɪl ɪˈtɒː scɪlt/
2SG has-PRS.2SG IDEF word REL=POSS meaning 1SG=have=NEG up_until today understand-PST.PART
Tha hemland?
/θə ˈheːmˌlant/
2SG.OBL homeland
Ʒe gʒark witte hwilk klime at is in.
/jə cark wɪt ʍɪlk kʰlɛi̯m ət ɪs ɪn/
1SG AUX.PRS-NEG know which clime 3NSG be.PRS.3 in
Fairness?
/ˈfeːrnɪs/
beauty
Ʒe scild liste hen freeliʒ, ei githess oʒ oudothliʒ.
/jə scɪlt lɪst ən ˈfrɪə̯li | ə ˈcɪθəs ɒ uˈtɒθli/
1SG would love 3FSG.OBL free-ADV | IDEF goddess and un-death-ADV
Guld?
/kʊlt/
gold
Ʒe het at sam at tha hets Guth.
/jə hɛt ət sam ə θa hɛts kʊθ/
1SG hate 3NSG like REL 2SG hate-PRS.2SG God
O? Hwat gis tha liste syne, guith fremmen?
/ɒ ʍat cɪs θə lɪst sɛɪ̯n cʏə̯θ frɛmən/
INTJ what AUX.PRS.2SG 2SG love then good stranger
Ʒe list the scyer.... the scyer at gang... up thar... the scyer fantastisc!!
/jə lɪst θə scɛɪ̯ər θə scɛɪ̯ər ə kaŋk ʊp θar θə scɛɪ̯ər fanˈtʰastɪsc/
1SG love DEF cloud-PL | DEF cloud-PL REL travel up there | DEF cloud-PL fantastic
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Conlangs: Hawntow, Yorkish, misc.
she/her
Conlangs: Hawntow, Yorkish, misc.
she/her