Schleicher's fable

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Schleicher's fable

Post by Lambuzhao »

atman wrote: :mrgreen: . But you didn't find a role for the Indo-Iranic peoples...
Jorge Luis Borges, in a brief disquisition on the Schleicher Fable in his unfinished book
of essays Blind like me: Proto-Indo-European and Loving It, has argued that the man could represent the Indo-Aryan peoples.

The Hyparxos Tablets have a big lacuna in them, but its seems that the missing/corrupted text might very well deal with a queen/goddess named
Sindra, who either gave birth to or swallowed the hippo-monster. It is not clear, but this Sindra might have also been the lover or begetter of Weidas.
Well, time for me to renew my club membership at the kʷékʷlos klan [:)] :
Indeed!
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atman
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Re: Schleicher's fable

Post by atman »

Lambuzhao wrote:Jorge Luis Borges, in a brief disquisition on the Schleicher Fable in his unfinished book
of essays Blind like me: Proto-Indo-European and Loving It, has argued that the man could represent the Indo-Aryan peoples.
Sorry [:D], as an Argentinian I of all people should have known that [;)].

Another suggested title: Doctor Schleicher, or how I learned to stop worrying and love Proto-Indo-European [:)]

Also: my own (in progress) guide to PIE: Spoken Yamna Style (the title is an awful word play based on Oppan Gangnam Style [>_<] ): viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3170
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
clawgrip
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Re: Schleicher's fable

Post by clawgrip »

:con: Ďomün
A short pastoral sort of story was just what I was looking for.

Image

Nirzüre uldïbarṃ os müdze arïïk añaqṃ mugrë muïśur baigeśi, os giśüwber as-nam aimzozi śëñuz orok os giśogoqave as-nam nopi qen orok os gilogoqavë as-nam nainain vëzi. Uldïbarṃ müste baigeśre as tamërmëm vaitiñ kanatar vëm os gilb̌eboś baigeśi. Baigeśṃ igiste uldïbarrë as uldïbar, ponüron, ditembërmëm keaitiñ kanattayar lurï. Vëm orwum giśdzi as añaqi as uldïbarbë litsi new ďusïrë üvmüdze arïïk añaqṃ as uldïbarrë. Idzoy konomüśonürgü as uldïbarṃ ni müzlüs as muñrë.
Spoiler:
Nirzüre uldïbarṃ os müdze arïïk añaqṃ mugrë muïśur baigeśi,
Nirzü-re uldïbar-ṃ os mü-dze a<rïy>k añaq-ṃ mug-rë mu-iś-ur b-aigeś-zi,
hill-LOC uldïbar-NOM REL 3.TAN.NOM.SG-NEG N<LOC.COP> wool-NOM 3.TAN.NOM.SG-LOC 3.TAN.NOM.SG-3.MASC.OBJ.PL-see PL-aigeś-ACC
/niˈzy.re ul.dɨˈbɑ.rm̩ os ˈmy.d͡ze ɑˈrɨːk ɑˈɲɑ.ʔm̩ ˈmuɡ.ræ ˈmuɨ̯.ʃur bai̯ˈɡe.ʃi/

os giśüwber as-nam aimzozi śëñuz orok os giśogoqave as-nam nopi qen orok os gilogoqavë as-nam nainain vëzi.
as gi-ś-üwber as=na-m aimzo-zi śëñ-uz orok as gi-ś-ogoqavë as-na-m nop-zi qen orok as gi-l-ogoqavë as-nam nainai-n vë-zi.
os ɡiˈʃyː.ber ɑsˈnɑm ai̯.moˈzo.zi ʃæˈɲuz oˈrok os ɡi.ʃo.ɡoˈʔɑ.væ ɑsˈnɑm ˈno.pi ʔen oˈrok os ɡi.lo.ɡoˈʔɑ.væ ɑsˈnɑm nai̯ˈnai̯n ˈvæ.zi/
REL 3.MASC.NOM.SG-3.TAN.OBJ.SG-pull one=CL.RAT-NOM wagon-ACC heavy-TAN and REL 3.MASC.NOM.SG-carry.on.back one=CL.RAT-NOM burden-ACC big\IRRT and 3.MASC.NOM.SG-3.MASC.OBJ.SG-carry.on.back one=CL.RAT-NOM quick-ADV man-ACC.

Uldïbarṃ müste baigeśre as tamërmëm vaitiñ kanatar vëm os gilb̌eboś baigeśi.
Uldïbar-ṃ müste baigeśre as tam-ërmë-m va-aitiñ kana-ta-l-r vë-m as gi-il-b̌ebo-ś b-aigeś-zi.
/ul.dɨˈbɑ.rm̩ myˈjos.te bai̯ˈɡeʃ.re ɑs tɑˈmær.mæm ˈvai̯.tiɲ kɑ.nɑˈtɑr væm ɡil.bˠeˈboʃ bai̯ˈɡe.ʃi/
uldïbar-NOM 3.TAN PL-aigeś-DAT COMPL 1.SG.POS-heart-NOM 3.INTAN.NOM.SG-be.in.pain COND-1.SG.NOM-(3.MASC.OBJ.SG)-see man-ACC REL 3.MASC.NOM.SG-3.MASC.OBJ(.PL)-drive-DLM PL-aigeś-ACC.

Baigeśṃ igiste uldïbarrë as uldïbar, ponüron, ditembërmëm keaitiñ kanattayar lurï.
Bi-aigeś-ṃ igi-ste uldïbar-rë as uldïbar, po-nür-on, ditem-bi-ërmëm ke-aitiñ kana-atta-y-r lur-zi.
bai̯ˈɡe.ʃm̩ iˈɡis.te ul.dɨˈbɑr.re ɑs ul.dɨˈbɑr po.nyˈron di.temˈbær.mæn ke-ˈai̯-tiɲ kɑ.nɑt.tɑˈjɑr ˈlu.rɨ/
PL-aigeś-NOM 3.MASC.NOM.PL-say uldïbar(-VOC) 2.NOM.SG-listen-IMPER 1.PL.POS-PL-heart-NOM 3.INTAN.NOM.PL-be.in.pain COND-1.NOM.PL-3.INTAN.OBJ.SG-see this-ACC

Vëm orwum giśdzi as añaqi as uldïbarbë litsi new ďusïrë üvmüdze arïïk añaqṃ as uldïbarrë.
Vë-m orwu-m gi-ś-dzi as añaq-zi as uldïbar-be lits-zi new ďusï-re uv-mu-dze a<rïy>k añaq-ṃ as uldïbar-re.
man-NOM master-NOM 3.MASC.NOM.SG-3.TAN.OBJ.SG-make DEF.ART wool-ACC REL uldïbar-GEN garb-ACC for self-LOC and-3.TAN.NOM.SG-NEG N<LOC.COP> wool-NOM the uldïbar-LOC

Idzoy konomüśonürgü as uldïbarṃ ni müzlüs as muñrë.
Idzoy kono-mu-ś-onür-gu as uldïbar-ṃ ni mu-üzlüs as muñ-re.
after COND-3.TAN.NOM.SG-3.TAN.OBJ.SG-hear-PERF DEF.ART uldïbar-NOM PST 3.TAN.NOM.SG-flee the plain-LOC
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Artaxes
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Re: Schleicher's fable

Post by Artaxes »

Čŏpe u phersŏi
/t͡ʃʌpɛ ʔu pʰɛɾsʌi/
[sheep-FEM and horse-MASC-PL]

Ha an-auqhem, an-čŏpe ka geel balles phersŏis daaulata, ŏrŏ aš ŏnis ka accala an-čepurŏs čembŏs, ŏrŏ ka accala an-čembemŏ, u ŏrŏ ka accala an-mangŏs rasdu.
/ha ʔanawqʰɛm ʔant͡ʃʌpɛ ka geːl ballɛs pʰɛɾsʌis daːwlata ʌɾʌ ʔaʃ ʌɲis ka ʔat͡st͡sala ʔant͡ʃɛpuɾʌs t͡ʃɛmbʌs ʌɾʌ ka at͡st͡sala ant͡ʃɛmbɛmʌ ʔu ʌɾʌ ka at͡st͡sala ʔammaŋgʌs ɾasdu/
[on DEM-hill-FEM-INST DEM-sheep who without wool-FEM-GEN horse-MASC-PL-GEN see-PST-PRF one-MASC from 3.PL-GEN who pull-PST DEM-carrier-MASC-GEN heavy-MASC-GEN one-MASC who pull-PST DEM-load-MASC and one-MASC who pull-PST DEM-man-MASC-GEN fast-ADV]
On a hill, a sheep that had no wool saw horses, one of them pulling a heavy wagon, one carrying a big load, and one carrying a man quickly.
As-Čŏpe phersŏis ŏnŏm piečlata: "Kumbe yee yaas maq qače an-mangŏs daau ka emar phersŏis.
/ʔaʃt͡ʃʌpɛ pʰɛrsʌis ʌnʌm pjɛt͡ʃlata kumbɛ jeː jaːs maq qat͡ʃɛ ammaŋgʌs daːw ka ʔɛmaɾ pʰɛɾsʌis/
[DEM-sheep-FEM horse-MASC-PL-GEN 3.SG-INST speak-PST-PRF heart my 1.SG-GEN pain when DEM-man-MASC-GEN see who go-CAUS horse-MASC-PL-GEN]
The sheep said to the horses: "My heart pains me, seeing a man driving horses."
Phersŏi piečlata: "Aa yŏš čiees, čŏpe, kumbei mŏŏ mes maq qače me daau asŏ: an-mangŏ, daanŏ, balles aš čŏpes quai el an-waaššes šŭŭkhŏs ro šas.
/pʰɛɾsʌi pjɛt͡ʃlata ʔaː jʌʃ t͡ɕeːs t͡ʃʌpɛ kumbɛi mɤː mɛs maq qat͡ʃɛ mɛ daːw ʔaʃʌ ʔammaŋgʌ daːnʌ ballɛs aʃ t͡ʃʌpes qwaj ʔɛl ʔamwaʃʃɛs ʃɯkʰʌs ɾɔ ʃas/
[horse-MASC-PL speak-PST-PRF IMPER VOLIT hear sheep-FEM heart-FEM-PL our 1.PL-GEN pain when 1.PL see DEM-MASC DEM-man master wool-FEM-GEN from sheep-FEM-GEN make in DEM-cloth-FEM-GEN warm-for self]
The horses said: "Listen, sheep, our hearts pain us when we see this: a man, the master, makes the wool of the sheep into a warm garment for himself.
U čŏpe balles le wŭt.
/ʔu t͡ʃʌpɛ ballɛs lɛ wɯt/
[and sheep-FEM wool-FEM-GEN no have]
And the sheep has no wool."
Bo yŏš čieesni ŏnŏs, ćŏpe čar sauummes kheltelata.
/bɔ jʌʃ t͡ɕeːsɲi ʌnʌs t͡ʃʌpɛ t͡ʃaɾ sauːmmes kʰɛltɛlata/
[after VOLIT hear-MASD 3.SG-MASC-GEN sheep through plain-FEM-GEN run-PST-PRF]
Having heard this, the sheep fled into the plain.
Iyionaku
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Re: Schleicher's fable

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian

Mæʻæ è macmin

Mæʻæʻi mia céviter cîyvalbet mælros valet macmin; miafò biyet licomaryas, miafò vebet mubuiʻaiet, èpa miafò soyvebet puleo. A'mæʻæ bicet: »Reo pumán vulret nat valai puleo ganset macmin.« A'macmin bicʻi: »Cariyas, a'mæʻæ, reo pumánan vulri nat vat renut yivalut: A'puleo, a'sar, iy mælros pereyet pargepulvon can yeʻi èpa a'mæʻæn cîyvalbiyli mælros.« Der vat rîyut a'mæʻæ, de fiynet pès vina.

Spoiler:
Mæʻæ è macmin
[ˈmœːʔə ɛ ˈmakmin]
sheep and horse-PL
The sheep and the horses

Note that in headlines, the definite article is usually omitted.

Mæʻæʻi mia céviter cîyvalbet mælros valet macmin; miafò biyet licomaryas, miafò vebet mubuiʻaiet, èpa miafò soyvebet puleo.
[ˈmœʔəʔi ˈmi.ɐ ˈkeːʋɨtəd̟ kiɕvɐlˈbɛt ˈmœlɾɔ̈ʃ ˈvaːlət ˈmakmɨn; mɪ̯ɐˈɸɔ̈ː ˈba̯iːət ˈliːkɔ̈ˌmaɾʃɐs, mɪ̯ɐɸɔ̈ː ˈveːbət ˈmuːbuˌʔaɪ̯ət, ˈɛpɐ mɪ̯ɐˈɸɔ̈ː ˌsoʃˈveːbə‿pʉˈleːɔ̈]
sheep-ENUM one REL.ANIM.INDEF not_anymore-have.3SG wool see-3SG horse-PL; one-DISTR pull-3SG wagon-heavy, one-DISTR carry-3SG load-wide, and one-DISTR medium_fast-carry-3SG human
On a hill, a sheep that had no wool saw horses, one of them pulling a heavy wagon, one carrying a big load, and one carrying a man quickly.

A'mæʻæ bicet: »Reo pumán vulret nat valai puleo ganset macmin.«
[ɐˈmœːʔə ˈbiːkət: "ˈɾeːɔ̈ pʉˈmaːn ˈvulɾət nɐt ˈvaːlaɪ̯ pʉˈleː.ɔ̈ ˈgansət ˈmakmɨn]
DEF.ANIM=sheep say-3SG: 1SG.POSS heart hurt-3SG when see-1SG human impel-3SG horse-PL
The sheep said to the horses: "My heart pains me, seeing a man driving horses."

A'macmin bicʻi: »Cariyas, a'mæʻæ, reo pumánan vulri der vat renut yivalut: A'puleo, a'sar, iy mælros pereyet pargepulvon can yeʻi èpa a'mæʻæn cîyvalbiyli mælros.«
[ɐˈmakmɨn ˈbikʔi: "kɐˈɾa̯iːɐʃ, ɐˈmœːʔə, ˈɾe.ɔ̈ pʉˈmaːnɐn ˈvulɾi dəd̟ vɐt ˈɾeːnʉt ɕɨˈʋaːlʉt: ɐpʉˈleː.ɔ̈, ɐˈsad̟, a̯iː ˈmœlˈɾɔ̈ʃ pəˈɾeːʃət ˈpaɾgəˌpulvɔ̈n kɐn ˈɕeʔi ˈɛpɐ ɐˈmœʔən ˌkiɕvɐlˈba̯iːli ˈmœlɾɔ̈ʃ]
DEF.ANIM=horse-PL say-3PL: listen-JUS.2SG, DEF.ANIM=sheep, 1SG.NOM heart-PL hurt-PL when DEM 1PLEX.OBL PST-see-INV.3SG.INAN: DEF.ANIM=human, DEF.ANIM=sir, out_of wool fabricate-3SG clothing-warm for 3SG.REFL and DEF.ANIM=sheep-PL not_anymore-have-3SG wool
The horses said: "Listen, sheep, our hearts pain us when we see this: a man, the master, makes the wool of the sheep into a warm garment for himself. And the sheep has no wool."

Der vat rîyut a'mæʻæ, de fiynet pès vina.
[dəd̟ vɐt ˈɾiːɕʉt ɐˈmœːʔə, də ˈfa̯iːnə‿pɛs ˈviːnɐ]
when DEM hear-INV.3SG.INAN DEF.ANIM=sheep, OBJ flee-3SG to field
Having heard this, the sheep fled into the plain.
New words for this challenge: none I'm a proud father!
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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Znex
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Re: Schleicher's fable

Post by Znex »

:con: Yorkish

Nat: Pen ei houʒ, ei faer at had inn ull saw rosser, ʒen o them war drawen ei thunge waun, ʒen bairen ei stuire lass, oʒ ʒen bairen ei man kwick. The faer saud till the rosser, "Me hert irks me at sei ei man driven rosser." Oʒ the rosser saud, "Lissen, fare, aur herten irks us hwan we sei thes: ei man, the ʒarel, scapen the faerull till warme klether for sysʒen, oʒ the faer has inn ull." So sene sam at herd thes, the faer flid i dale.
Norm: Pä'n en hog, et fär at hadde inge ull så rosser, jen av ðem var dragen en þunge vagn, jen bären et støre lass, og jen bären en mann kvick. Ðet fär sagde til ðe rosser: «Mit hjärt yrkes meg at sej en mann dreiven rosser.» Og ðe rosser sagde: «Lystne fär, år hjärten yrkes us hvan vi sej ðes: en mann, ðen jarl, skjäpen ðet färull til varme kliðer for sinsjän, og ðet fär haves inge ull.» Svå sin som ðat hørde ðes, ðet fär flydde i däl.
Spoiler:
Pen ei houʒ, ei faer at had inn ull saw rosser, ʒen o them war drawen ei thunge waun, ʒen bairen ei stuire lass, oʒ ʒen bairen ei man kwick.
/pʰɛn ə huː ə fɛar ə hat ɪn ʊl sɒː 'rɒsər | jeːn ɒ θəm wɒr trɒːən ə θʊŋk wɒːn | jeːn 'beːrən ə stʏər las | ɒ jeːn 'beːrən ə man kʰwɪk/
on INDEF hill INDEF sheep REL have.PST NEG.DET wool see.PST horse-PL | one of 3PL.OBL be.PST draw-PRS.PART INDEF heavy wagon | one carry-PRS.PART INDEF big weight | and one carry-PRS.PART INDEF man quick.ADV
On a hill, a sheep that had no wool saw horses, one of them was pulling a heavy wagon, one carrying a big load, and one carrying a man quickly.

The faer saud till the rosser, "Me hert irks me at sei ei man driven rosser."
/θə fɛar sɒt tʰɪl θə 'rɒsər | mə çɛrt ɪrks mə ə səi ə man 'trɛifən 'rɒsər/
DEF sheep say.PST to DEF horse-PL | 1SG.POSS heart pain-PRS.3 1SG.OBL INF see INDEF man drive-PRS.PART horse-PL
The sheep said to the horses: "My heart pains me to see a man driving horses."

Oʒ the rosser saud, "Lissen, fare, aur herten irks us hwan we sei thes: ei man, the ʒarel, scapen the faerull till warme klether for sysʒen, oʒ the faer has inn ull."
/ɒ θə 'rɒsər sɒt | 'lɪsən fɛar ɒːr 'çɛrtən ɪrks ʊs ʍan wə səi θɛs | ə man θə 'jɒːrəl 'scɛapən θə ˈfɛarʊl tʰɪl wɒr 'kʰlɪəθər fɒr sɪ'ɕɛn | ɒ θə fɛar has ɪn ʊl/
and DEF horse-PL say.PST | listen sheep 1PL.POSS heart-PL pain-PRS.3 1PL.OBL when 1PL.NOM see this | INDEF man DEF lord make-PRS.PART DEF sheep=wool to warm clothes for REFL=self | and DEF sheep have-PRS.3 NEG.DET wool
And the horses said: "Listen, sheep, our hearts pain us when we see this: a man, the master, makes the wool of the sheep into a warm garment for himself. And the sheep has no wool."

So sene sam at herd thes, the faer flid i dale.
/sɒː sɪən səm at heːrt θɛs | θə fɛar flɪt i tɛal/
so soon as 3NSG hear-PST this | DEF sheep flee-PST into dale
As soon as it heard this, the sheep fled into the plain.
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: :wls: : [:S] | :deu: :ell: :rus: : [:x]
Conlangs: Hawntow, Yorkish, misc.
she/her
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