Yeah, that's because of lenitions. I kind of wonder if they wouldn't say all the "th"-sounds asLao Kou wrote:At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?
Conlang accents
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- roman
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: 16 May 2015 18:48
Re: Conlang accents
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light
Re: Conlang accents
Waku
[oːl ˈjuːman biːŋ aː boːn pˠiː an‿iːkəlː iŋ ˈdigːniti an raik̚ dei̯ aː eˈdau̯d ɰidː ˈriːson an ˈkonːsen an sudː akː təˈoːd ɰɑn ənˈədːə in ə ˈpirik̚ əv ˈbˠədːəhʊdː
Nizhmel
[ol ˈʐuman pʲieŋ a pɔn fʲi an ˈikol in ˈtʲiknʲiti an rat tʲe a ˈentat wit ˈrisɔn an ˈkonʂɛn an ʂud ak tɔot van anˈɔdɛ in a ˈpirit ɔv ˈbɔdɛhud]
Thes transcriptions might represent quite thick accents of the respective conlangs. I could theoretically construct even thicker accents, with everything adapted to the phonology of Waku and Nizhmel - but I assumed that the speakers has a acquired some minimal training in English phonology, and are at least imperfectly able to handle phonemes occurring in different positions (f.ex. in Waku, /d/ cannot end a word), or to place stress on different syllables (f.ex. in Nizhmel, stress always fall on the first syllable).
[oːl ˈjuːman biːŋ aː boːn pˠiː an‿iːkəlː iŋ ˈdigːniti an raik̚ dei̯ aː eˈdau̯d ɰidː ˈriːson an ˈkonːsen an sudː akː təˈoːd ɰɑn ənˈədːə in ə ˈpirik̚ əv ˈbˠədːəhʊdː
Nizhmel
[ol ˈʐuman pʲieŋ a pɔn fʲi an ˈikol in ˈtʲiknʲiti an rat tʲe a ˈentat wit ˈrisɔn an ˈkonʂɛn an ʂud ak tɔot van anˈɔdɛ in a ˈpirit ɔv ˈbɔdɛhud]
Thes transcriptions might represent quite thick accents of the respective conlangs. I could theoretically construct even thicker accents, with everything adapted to the phonology of Waku and Nizhmel - but I assumed that the speakers has a acquired some minimal training in English phonology, and are at least imperfectly able to handle phonemes occurring in different positions (f.ex. in Waku, /d/ cannot end a word), or to place stress on different syllables (f.ex. in Nizhmel, stress always fall on the first syllable).
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- cuneiform
- Posts: 192
- Joined: 25 Nov 2013 15:39
Re: Conlang accents
The phonology of Miwonša does not get along well with English at all :D
ɔl 'ɕu.mãː 'pĩː.s‿aː 'pɔːn friː ãː 'i.kwal wit 'tik.ni.ti ã 'raɪ̯.tsi. tɛ.j‿aː ɛ̃ː'taʊ̯t wit 'riːzɛ̃ː ãː 'kɔ̃ːʃɛ̃ːs ãː ʃu.'t‿ak tu.'waːs wãː a'nata ĩː a 'spirit ɔp 'pratahut
ɔl 'ɕu.mãː 'pĩː.s‿aː 'pɔːn friː ãː 'i.kwal wit 'tik.ni.ti ã 'raɪ̯.tsi. tɛ.j‿aː ɛ̃ː'taʊ̯t wit 'riːzɛ̃ː ãː 'kɔ̃ːʃɛ̃ːs ãː ʃu.'t‿ak tu.'waːs wãː a'nata ĩː a 'spirit ɔp 'pratahut
- k1234567890y
- mayan
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
- Contact:
Re: Conlang accents
Lonmai Luna:
/ól híuman bíns aɹ bón fɹí en íkwol in dikníti en ɹáis dei aɹ indáut wit kánʃens en ʃut ét tuwós wán anáda in a spíɹit af bɹádahut/
Urban Basanawa:
If a Basanawa speaker tries to pronunce it using the (American) English pronunciation rule, it would be like this:
/ɔɫ hɪ'jʊmən 'bi:ŋks ar 'bɔrn 'fri: ɛn 'ɪkwəɫ ɪn dɪk'nɪtɪ ɛn 'raɪts de: ar ɪn'daʊt wɪt 'kɔnʃəns ɛn ʃʊt 'akt tʊ'wɔrts wan ə'nɔdər ɪn ə 'spi:rɪt ɔf 'brɔdərhu:t/
However, there's another possibility, although Urban Basanawa is currently not written in any Latin-derived script, it used to, and as both of Urban Basanawa and English are Ingvaeonic west Germanic languages and has many words that look similar when writing in Latin-derived scripts, it can lead to confusion sometimes, therefore, some people may pronunce English words using the way one pronunces using the romanization of Urban Basanawa:
/aɫ 'hʊman 'be:ŋks ɑ:r 'bɔrn 'fri: ant 'ekwaɫ ɪn dɪk'ni:tɪ ant 'rɪçts de: ɑ:r en'do:t mɪt kɔns'tsi:nts ant ʃo:ɫt 'akt tə'warts o:n a'no:dər ɪn a 'spi:rɪt ɔf 'brɔdərhu:t/
/ól híuman bíns aɹ bón fɹí en íkwol in dikníti en ɹáis dei aɹ indáut wit kánʃens en ʃut ét tuwós wán anáda in a spíɹit af bɹádahut/
Urban Basanawa:
If a Basanawa speaker tries to pronunce it using the (American) English pronunciation rule, it would be like this:
/ɔɫ hɪ'jʊmən 'bi:ŋks ar 'bɔrn 'fri: ɛn 'ɪkwəɫ ɪn dɪk'nɪtɪ ɛn 'raɪts de: ar ɪn'daʊt wɪt 'kɔnʃəns ɛn ʃʊt 'akt tʊ'wɔrts wan ə'nɔdər ɪn ə 'spi:rɪt ɔf 'brɔdərhu:t/
However, there's another possibility, although Urban Basanawa is currently not written in any Latin-derived script, it used to, and as both of Urban Basanawa and English are Ingvaeonic west Germanic languages and has many words that look similar when writing in Latin-derived scripts, it can lead to confusion sometimes, therefore, some people may pronunce English words using the way one pronunces using the romanization of Urban Basanawa:
/aɫ 'hʊman 'be:ŋks ɑ:r 'bɔrn 'fri: ant 'ekwaɫ ɪn dɪk'ni:tɪ ant 'rɪçts de: ɑ:r en'do:t mɪt kɔns'tsi:nts ant ʃo:ɫt 'akt tə'warts o:n a'no:dər ɪn a 'spi:rɪt ɔf 'brɔdərhu:t/
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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- mongolian
- Posts: 3885
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
- Location: California über alles
Re: Conlang accents
Hmmmm . . . I always say [wɪð].Lao Kou wrote:At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?
Checking Wiktionary, it looks as if what people use is more complicated than I thought:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with#Pronunciation
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Re: Conlang accents
I only say [wɪð] when it is followed with "a" "an" or "the".Khemehekis wrote:Hmmmm . . . I always say [wɪð].Lao Kou wrote:At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?
Checking Wiktionary, it looks as if what people use is more complicated than I thought:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with#Pronunciation
Spoiler:
Re: Conlang accents
Pofpʼash
[ʔouʔ xu'mem bis sa boŋ ʒi ʔen ni'kʷu ʔen diɳɳi'ti ʔen nʷaits | dej ja ʔen'daut tʷi dʷi'zen eŋ koɳ'ʒedz eŋ ɣut ak te'woz wan nana'da ʔen nas pi'jit tev boda'ɣut]
[ʔouʔ xu'mem bis sa boŋ ʒi ʔen ni'kʷu ʔen diɳɳi'ti ʔen nʷaits | dej ja ʔen'daut tʷi dʷi'zen eŋ koɳ'ʒedz eŋ ɣut ak te'woz wan nana'da ʔen nas pi'jit tev boda'ɣut]
: | : | : | :
Conlangs: Hawntow, Yorkish, misc.
she/her
Conlangs: Hawntow, Yorkish, misc.
she/her
Re: Conlang accents
Not meaning to continue the current "off-topic" subject, but my pronunciation of /wɪð/ can vary between [wɪð], [wɪθ] and [wɪ(j)] depending on how much final-consonant devoicing I allow, regressive voice assimilation and on how far into my Yorkshire accent I'll go as opposed to my so-called "Forces accent".Khemehekis wrote:Hmmmm . . . I always say [wɪð].Lao Kou wrote:At the risk of triggering YAEPT, while [wɪð] is possible in my idiolect (don't know in what environments), nine times out of ten it's [wɪθ] (hazarding a guess, word-final [ð] seems to come more often than not after the "long" vowels of English). It would seem I'm not the only one. Even if Géarthnuns didn't have these sounds, I'd be inclined to have the end of "with" be voiceless, like [wɪs] or [wɪf] (atman's has "with" with final [t], but "they" and "brotherhood" with [d]; HoskhMatriarch's is similar, but with [z] in "brotherhood").Khemehekis wrote:Why do some of these accents with TH-sounds use [θ] for "with" even though they use [ð] for the other /ð/ words?
Checking Wiktionary, it looks as if what people use is more complicated than I thought:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/with#Pronunciation
Over the phone or at work with customers it's almost always [wɪð], except when affected by regressive voice assimilation triggered by a following voiceless consonant where it becomes [wɪθ].
With the people I work with, or with family over the phone, it shifts to [wɪ] before consonants and [wɪj] before vowels, so that /wɪðaʊt/ is more like [wɪjaʊʔ].
I have an odd accent that I tend to use with friends or when very happy where it will vary between [wɪð] and [wɪθ], only appearing with [ð] when appearing before a voiced consonant at the start of the following word, as best I can tell. It's a weird mishmash of accents that I've picked up over the last decade or so. There's some Welsh in there, but mostly in set phrases and words, some Russian, and a recent hint of Icelandic all laid on top of a Yorkshire accent with some Estuary influences. It's a bit of a pain
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Conlang accents
I think my situation is similar to the one described by Lao Kou (I'd say [wɪθ] nine times out of ten). In fact, I'd never even considered that anyone would say [wɪð] before this discussion. Now, although it doesn't happen often, I realize that I say [wɪð] sometimes as well, mostly before voiced consonants and vowels. It's interesting to me that [wɪð] is normal in some dialects, as I've always thought of the word as [wɪθ] (and "without" as [wɪˈθaʊ̯ʔ]). Before this, if I had heard someone say [wɪð] in isolation, I would have assumed they were saying "width".
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- roman
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: 16 May 2015 18:48
Re: Conlang accents
So you pronounce with the same as width? Also, which dialect of English do you speak? I can think of a couple with affricates instead of dental fricatives.qwed117 wrote:Can I tell you guys a secret?
I pronounce it tθ and dð.
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light
Re: Conlang accents
widθ, something Generally American. It seems to come from my parents who are Indians. I actually have both affricates and fricates; affricates are word initial like in "the" [dðə]HoskhMatriarch wrote:So you pronounce with the same as width? Also, which dialect of English do you speak? I can think of a couple with affricates instead of dental fricatives.qwed117 wrote:Can I tell you guys a secret?
I pronounce it tθ and dð.
Spoiler:
Re: Conlang accents
[ă̙ː ʝuɱ bɨɴʑɔ bɔɴ ɮiː ɯɨɕɔɭ ʕɨɧɦɥʋɨ hʁɔ̃ dɨ̈ʁʈɪ ɱʀɑɨʨ. ɟɛɴɖɑʊ ɬɔɨʒɑɥ ʡɞɲɑ ɖɑʀʦ ʂɨɽɨ ɓʀʌðʌʜħʉɗ]
Yes, I know the phonology is unlike English. They joined words together to make it shorter, a common feature in their language.
Yes, I know the phonology is unlike English. They joined words together to make it shorter, a common feature in their language.
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- roman
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: 16 May 2015 18:48
Re: Conlang accents
I hope this is a jokelang, because that phonology looks like a literal attempt to use every weird symbol on the IPA chart. I thought Klingon was unnaturalistic... Also, you're supposed have them read it as-is, not with grammatical features added from other languages, otherwise my language would say "they with the reason the conscience-and endowed are" or something like that.Birdlang wrote:[ă̙ː ʝuɱ bɨɴʑɔ bɔɴ ɮiː ɯɨɕɔɭ ʕɨɧɦɥʋɨ hʁɔ̃ dɨ̈ʁʈɪ ɱʀɑɨʨ. ɟɛɴɖɑʊ ɬɔɨʒɑɥ ʡɞɲɑ ɖɑʀʦ ʂɨɽɨ ɓʀʌðʌʜħʉɗ]
Yes, I know the phonology is unlike English. They joined words together to make it shorter, a common feature in their language.
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light
Re: Conlang accents
Xioran
'ɔlu ˈhjuməni ˈbi.ĩs 'äru 'bɔni fri 'ãdi ˈikwəlu ĩ ˈdeginə'ti 'ãdi rajts. dej 'äru ẽˈdawdi wef ˈrizəni 'ãdi ˈkãʃẽs 'ãdi ʃodi 'äkiti tuˈwɔdis 'wəni əˈnəvə ĩ ə isˈperəti ɔf ˈbrəvəˌhudi.
'ɔlu ˈhjuməni ˈbi.ĩs 'äru 'bɔni fri 'ãdi ˈikwəlu ĩ ˈdeginə'ti 'ãdi rajts. dej 'äru ẽˈdawdi wef ˈrizəni 'ãdi ˈkãʃẽs 'ãdi ʃodi 'äkiti tuˈwɔdis 'wəni əˈnəvə ĩ ə isˈperəti ɔf ˈbrəvəˌhudi.
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
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Re: Conlang accents
But it is not a grammatical feature, but a phonetic feature.HoskhMatriarch wrote:I hope this is a jokelang, because that phonology looks like a literal attempt to use every weird symbol on the IPA chart. I thought Klingon was unnaturalistic... Also, you're supposed have them read it as-is, not with grammatical features added from other languages, otherwise my language would say "they with the reason the conscience-and endowed are" or something like that.Birdlang wrote:[ă̙ː ʝuɱ bɨɴʑɔ bɔɴ ɮiː ɯɨɕɔɭ ʕɨɧɦɥʋɨ hʁɔ̃ dɨ̈ʁʈɪ ɱʀɑɨʨ. ɟɛɴɖɑʊ ɬɔɨʒɑɥ ʡɞɲɑ ɖɑʀʦ ʂɨɽɨ ɓʀʌðʌʜħʉɗ]
Yes, I know the phonology is unlike English. They joined words together to make it shorter, a common feature in their language.
Re: Conlang accents
AvantimannishAll4Ɇn wrote:Not a translation so much as a IPA transciption. How would someone with a thick (stereotypical if you want) accent of your conlang pronounce the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in English while still managing to make it at least somewhat understandable?
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.
Last edited by elemtilas on 21 Oct 2015 01:05, edited 1 time in total.
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- mayan
- Posts: 2080
- Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
- Location: USA
Re: Conlang accents
I would recommend not putting IPA in italics, as it makes [a] and [ɑ] very difficult to tell apart: a a ɑ ɑelemtilas wrote:allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.
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- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Conlang accents
I guess it depends on your computer or browser or font or something, since those look quite distinct to me.GrandPiano wrote:I would recommend not putting IPA in italics, as it makes [a] and [ɑ] very difficult to tell apart: a a ɑ ɑelemtilas wrote:allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.
Re: Conlang accents
Agreed, but it's an easy fix!shimobaatar wrote:I guess it depends on your computer or browser or font or something, since those look quite distinct to me.GrandPiano wrote:I would recommend not putting IPA in italics, as it makes [a] and [ɑ] very difficult to tell apart: a a ɑ ɑelemtilas wrote:allə jumɛn bijɪn zarə borən fri and ejkwal ən dɪgnɪte andə rɛçt zejr əndu:wət wəθ rejson andə kunʃɛntsə andə ʃu:wd ɒktə twerθəs u:wʌn ən ʌθer ən əspɪrɪt ʌv broθorhodə.