Quick Diachronics Challenge
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
If the original vowel system was just /i u e o æ a/, then:
*pat'isæ
*aɲɟa'tuka
*hila'mangjo, but *o was more like /ɒ/ in the protolang
*pat'isæ
*aɲɟa'tuka
*hila'mangjo, but *o was more like /ɒ/ in the protolang
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I'd say this is closer that the guess before, but probably about as close as your first guess, overall.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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- korean
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I just want to say that I'd like to give it another shot, although finding the time to go back over things may be tricky.
A brief response to feedback and a few new thoughts:
A brief response to feedback and a few new thoughts:
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
My explanations for those:
Adjacent to original palatals, *a > æ and *o > *ə > a if unstressed. In proto-45, short *æ > e, while short *a > *æ after *i.
Original /ng/ cluster broke into /nVg/ in word 3, while assimilating to /ŋg/ elsewhere. In some of these, /ŋg/ reduced to /ŋ/, while stressed vowels in open syllables lengthened in proto-45.
Adjacent to original palatals, *a > æ and *o > *ə > a if unstressed. In proto-45, short *æ > e, while short *a > *æ after *i.
Original /ng/ cluster broke into /nVg/ in word 3, while assimilating to /ŋg/ elsewhere. In some of these, /ŋg/ reduced to /ŋ/, while stressed vowels in open syllables lengthened in proto-45.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑18 Feb 2020 22:05 My explanations for those:
Adjacent to original palatals, *a > æ and *o > *ə > a if unstressed. In proto-45, short *æ > e, while short *a > *æ after *i.
Original /ng/ cluster broke into /nVg/ in word 3, while assimilating to /ŋg/ elsewhere. In some of these, /ŋg/ reduced to /ŋ/, while stressed vowels in open syllables lengthened in proto-45.
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Quick revision of the vowels:
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
The /j/ also caused that vowel shift and existed in the protolanguage.sangi39 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2020 22:22ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑18 Feb 2020 22:05 My explanations for those:
Adjacent to original palatals, *a > æ and *o > *ə > a if unstressed. In proto-45, short *æ > e, while short *a > *æ after *i.
Original /ng/ cluster broke into /nVg/ in word 3, while assimilating to /ŋg/ elsewhere. In some of these, /ŋg/ reduced to /ŋ/, while stressed vowels in open syllables lengthened in proto-45.Spoiler:
If there were no other palatals besides /j/ in the protolanguage, word 2 could be *anja'tuka, with an epenthetic *d in some cases resulting in *dʑ, but in other cases reducing to *j or *ɲ.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑20 Feb 2020 05:47The /j/ also caused that vowel shift and existed in the protolanguage.sangi39 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2020 22:22ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑18 Feb 2020 22:05 My explanations for those:
Adjacent to original palatals, *a > æ and *o > *ə > a if unstressed. In proto-45, short *æ > e, while short *a > *æ after *i.
Original /ng/ cluster broke into /nVg/ in word 3, while assimilating to /ŋg/ elsewhere. In some of these, /ŋg/ reduced to /ŋ/, while stressed vowels in open syllables lengthened in proto-45.Spoiler:
If there were no other palatals besides /j/ in the protolanguage, word 2 could be *anja'tuka, with an epenthetic *d in some cases resulting in *dʑ, but in other cases reducing to *j or *ɲ.
Spoiler:
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
-
- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Was this any closer?
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Hmmmmm.... It's been four days since I did my last lot of replies, right? I think that might be enough time to say that:
[ˈpʼatʼise]
[ɲæˈtukːa]
[hileˈmæŋgo]
Are all spot on Well, as close as. I think the vowel of the initial syllable in Word 3 could be reconstructed as /i/ and it honestly wouldn't make a difference, but was conceived as /e:/
For a while, it was a running tie between yourself and opipik (I think opipik made a more definitive decision on how to group 1-2-3 and 8-9-10, but you were already coming to some good conclusions on that front, while still not explicitly pinning it down), but you got their first.
(larger image https://i.imgur.com/yAR5qNm.png)
There are few sounds changes here and there (like the exact timing of vowel lengthening in early 4-5), since I can't seem to find the final version any more, but I think most of them are there. You can see one of my favourites, for example, of having a vowel reduce to schwa, and then have that go in two different directions, which explains the /i/~/a/ alternation in 8-9 and 10
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Interesting, I thought the /i/-/a/ alternations came from a diphthong.
Last edited by ɶʙ ɞʛ on 25 Feb 2020 21:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Wait, do I not get a chance to provide something for the next round?
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
That's the way we've typically done things, yeah It goes to the winner, unless they let it skip over them.shimobaatar wrote: ↑25 Feb 2020 19:35 Wait, do I not get a chance to provide something for the next round?
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Oops, you should present yours first.
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- korean
- Posts: 10373
- Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
- Location: UTC-04:00
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Just wanted to say that I am working on something for this thread, but I've been having a hard time feeling satisfied with anything I come up with. Sorry for the wait.