Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

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Khemehekis
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Khemehekis »

Bob wrote: 11 Aug 2020 06:05 George Floyd may or may not have been in his ghetto - stuff like what happened to him happens to Blacks, American poor, and others - in and out of their ghettos. And if you watch the George Floyd thing, they'll just give the guilty a slap on the wrist and then probably chase his family out of the State in retaliation, maybe even put an expressway over their neighborhood. A person can get away with terrible crimes if they're "a community pillar" in most places in the USA. The mindset seems to be that "all Blacks are the same" or "all American poor are the same", etc.
This is true. It always sets my blood to 212° Fahrenheit when I read a story about an innocent man convicted because he was Black.
No, I didn't mean that people dislike conlangs because of the ethnicities of their creators. The general impression I get from media jokes and such is that people think conlangs are totally useless and crazy. If you study French, you're excentric. If you study Klingon, go away.
People really think of those who study French as eccentric? In many high schools, two or three years of a foreign language are required.
How old is Itlani?
According to this article summary, Jim's been working on it since 1995. That means Itlani turns 25 this year -- awesome!
Last edited by Khemehekis on 13 Aug 2020 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote: 09 Aug 2020 08:43
Khemehekis wrote: 07 Aug 2020 13:26 Was the medical stuff inspired by http://khemehekis.angelfire.com/health.htm, by any chance?
More anatomical than medical per se. And while the linked page will be of interest!, actually you inspired it in one of our fireside chats here!
Oh! So stuff like how many digits each of the sapient species have (I remember we talked about that) and what's in a Daine's wing? And also the gruesome stuff Men do to Daine to study anatomy?
That's an interesting article indeed. A curious mixture of eutopy & dystopy; amazing advances in science & technology and bewildering benightedness in culture & practice.
Yeah. I thought Kankonian culture would be more interesting and three-dimensional if it had gruesome elements, so I threw in things like widespread tuberculosis and scabies, and even dreamt up the mobovas. If Kankonia is a thelemarchy without single-payer healthcare and the people are free to have bad hygiene, it would probably be more realistic for tuberculosis, scabies, and mobovas to run rampant anyway.
What's a pokhale worth? You don't mention the cost of other procedures; would be interesting to see how various procedures stack up.
One pokhal (pokhales is a Kankonian plural, just as fungi is a Latin plural) is worth 100 pikhids. The denominations of money are named after the Kankonian political figures featured on the coins. Coins are minted in the 1-pikhid piece, 5-pikhid piece (sotho), 10-pikhid piece (es-he), 50-pikhid piece (sagi), 1-pokhal piece, 5-pokhal piece (tzadu), 10-pokhal piece (imra), 50-pokhal piece (zhona), 100-pokhal piece (thiana) and 1,000-pokhal piece (popha, after anarchist writer Popha Calcium Arane).

I haven't tried to work out the exchange rate with Terran monetary units. Although I could list the prices of the other procedures for a comparison. That's a good idea for further work on that page.
A few years back, I dreamt I was reading either science fiction or ufology (I don't even remember which of the two it was) that talked about places with names like Urinia and Twpia. It discussed sapients who have 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32 of each body part, and are crazy about powers of two! That was the inspiration for the pynas. If I had never had that dream, the Lehola Galaxy would have one fewer people than it does today.
And, er, how many pynases do they have!? [}:D]
Pynas is the LIE/English plural of pyna. The Y in "pyna" is pronounced /y/ rather than /i/. But to answer your question, male pynas are monophallic.
Last edited by Khemehekis on 13 Aug 2020 02:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

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Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2020 01:18 Oh! So stuff like how many digits each of the sapient species have (I remember we talked about that) and what's in a Daine's wing? And also the gruesome stuff Men do to Daine to study anatomy?

Well, gruesome certainly from our perspective (I hope!) not so much the cultures Denê sometimes find themselves labouring under. If you're good, perhaps even a gruesome recipe.

I do have some notes on the number of digits of various races. And other things. An overview might be nice. Am also going to try my hand again at anatomical drawing.

Yeah. I thought Kankonian culture would be more interesting and three-dimensional if it had gruesome elements, so I threw in things like widespread tuberculosis and scabies, and even dreamt up the mobovas. If Kankonia is a thelemarchy without single-payer healthcare and the people are free to have bad hygiene, it would probably be more realistic for tuberculosis, scabies, and mobovas to run rampant anyway.
This kind of realism is something that has long drawn me away from the perfection of Star Trek's spic 'n' span Federation and towards Star Wars's grungier and darker Republic & later Empire. (Oh, yeah, the Republic can't have been all that saintly! Just a veneer of "democracy".)
One pokhal (pokhales is a Kankonian plural, just as fungi is a Latin plural) is worth 100 pikhids. The denominations of money are named after the Kankonian political figures featured on the coins. Coins are minted in the 1-pikhid piece, 5-pikhid piece (sotho), 10-pikhid piece (es-he), 50-pikhid piece (sagi), 1-pokhal piece, 5-pokhal piece (tzadu), 10-pokhal piece (imra), 50-pokhal piece (zhona), 100-pokhal piece (thiana) and 1,000-pokhal piece (popha, after anarchist writer Popha Calcium Arane).
Ick! Decimal overload!
I haven't tried to work out the exchange rate with Terran monetary units. Although I could list the prices of the other procedures for a comparison. That's a good idea for further work on that page.
Look forward to it!
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote: 06 Aug 2020 16:16 Even more old friends!

Mind you, I notice that Kankonian is nòt in that list!
Also, note this part:

https://sites.google.com/site/jankogore ... _languages
Janko Gorenc wrote:Martian (by Curlyimsam)
Who's Curlyimsam?
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote: 13 Aug 2020 01:35 Well, gruesome certainly from our perspective (I hope!) not so much the cultures Denê sometimes find themselves labouring under. If you're good, perhaps even a gruesome recipe.
Recipe? Daine brain pâté for Mannish folk and Hotai?
elemtilas wrote:I do have some notes on the number of digits of various races. And other things. An overview might be nice. Am also going to try my hand again at anatomical drawing.
Cool. All my handed sapients have somewhere between three and six fingers per hand -- except the icosadactyls, who have ten fingers per hand (like the ninth picture from the top left here).
elemtilas wrote:This kind of realism is something that has long drawn me away from the perfection of Star Trek's spic 'n' span Federation and towards Star Wars's grungier and darker Republic & later Empire. (Oh, yeah, the Republic can't have been all that saintly! Just a veneer of "democracy".)
What I said -- and what you just said -- reminds me of this quote from the thread What turns you onto a conworld?:
Veris wrote:3. Ugly, dirty, unsavory things. I think a lot of beginning conworlders especially, but we're all prone to it, tend to make their conworlds implausibly clean, neat and pretty. I see things like magical sanitation and too-convenient methods of personal grooming. This is especially glaring since a huge chunk of conworlds are medieval-esque. It's as if they don't realize how filthy dirty and disgusting the medieval era was. (People in cities used chamber pots, yes? What do you think they did with the contents? They threw them out the window and into the streets! Yes that's really what they did.) A conworld which doesn't hide the nitty-gritty is gonna grab my attention.
See also my dream about the Aeronians and the Chthonians in the Weird Dream Thread.
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

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Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2020 12:04 Also, note this part:

https://sites.google.com/site/jankogore ... _languages
An oversight requiring immediate fixation!
Janko Gorenc wrote:Martian (by Curlyimsam)
Who's Curlyimsam?
Curlyjimsam, surely?
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

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Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2020 12:38
I think it might be best if we moved this most interesting convo over to its own thread.
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Bob »

Here's some images to go with the last sizeable post which I did to this thread. On facebook, it's very good to include images so you can track posts easier in the images-only view. Also, I'm like half language scientist, half anthropologist, and half art historian. Because I study logographic writing systems. And then I get a lot into comparative mythology as part of all that, too.


...
...

Image

This is art based on the Klingon planet kangaroo courtroom scene from the late 1980s Star Trek movie where Captain Kirk gets sent to a Klingon "gulag" on false charges. It's arranged somewhat like a justice scale. I wanted to include a visual reference to the Mutsun Language, so I found a late 1800s image of a "pit house". https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/382383824590102795/ I mostly study the scientific mechanics and features of Native American languages but also study the associated material culture (artifacts, things) somewhat. I don't mean anything especially controversial by the use of these images. The Black Klingon is Worf or an ancestor of his from the Star Trek TV show The Next Generation.

Here we see the crooked Klingon judge at center giving a crooked verdict. To the right is Captain Kirk and the Ship Doctor, being defended by a seemingly sympathetic Klingon lawyer. To the left we see the Vulcan named Spock on board a star ship as interim captain with the Human officer named Chekov. Underneath are the historic Native American pit houses, probably used in the winter.

The irony of their exile to a "gulag", a remote labor camp of exile (and assassination), make the art more interesting but it's not really intended. I started facebook's first Native American Languages group and it currently also has an 1800s photo featuring Native Americans and traditional housing.

Like the previous group image, this art reflects my own interest in the anthropology and fantasy art of courtrooms.



Image

Image: Ancient Chinese round coins had a square hole in the middle so they could be put on a string. These were preceeded by round cowrie shells that also had a (probably square) hole in them, of which is the Chinese and Japanese character part "money", BEI 貝. Though it looks like an EYE with LEGS, recalling the character for SEE. Chinese characters do such things on purpose, I am an expert on all such hieroglyphic writing systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_of ... ency_unit)

This image is more Ferengi themed but I'll post it here so there's more historic real world art in this thread. I know on another conlang bulletin board I was on, people posted a lot in the conlang forum which was about the relevant conworld, fictional world. But the thread is overall about the conlangs in question.



Image

Here's an image of a sehlat, a Star Trek animal, from a 2004 Star Trek episode. I think it's computer-generated. I specialize a bit in the etymology of animals and in their cultural symbolism. The last couple years, I've been studying paleontology as part of my work on the 1970s Land of the Lost conlang Pakuni by Professor Victoria Fromkin, based on West African languages, no less.

I've decided on a non-Star Trek visual theme of historic money, numinastics, for Ferengi especially. I study numinastics a bit. The discoverer of the Minoan Empire was a numinasticist, notably. "Nominally?" "Denominationally?"

I might use these images to make a logographic writing systems for one or all of these languages, later.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Th ... _(episode)
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Bob »

Whoops! No, my two last large posts were on my Ferengi Languages thread. I'll keep these images here but now these languages will have to wait a week or so for when I present my translations. They took me so much time, I should really post them tomorrow or so and make them into websites. And then in a month, as I keep saying, I'll put online the rest, the notes and optional grammar expansions.

Alas, for the Vulcan the interlinear gloss is not enough and it's hard to follow everything that's going on without the optional grammar expansions plus interest in subordination and coordination in grammar.

Look at what I managed to get online last time I worked on Klingon translations:

Really almost nothing of the translations because most of what I accomplished was probably just looking up a ton of words and getting tons of texts ready for translation, plus background studies and posts.

https://anylanguageatall411.blogspot.co ... w=flipcard

I notice there's a lot of replies to this thread. I hope to read all these and give replies some other time.
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote: 13 Aug 2020 18:10
Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2020 12:04 Also, note this part:

https://sites.google.com/site/jankogore ... _languages
An oversight requiring immediate fixation!
You mean no Avantimannish? Actually, I was just linking to the page to show where the part below comes from:
Janko Gorenc wrote:Martian (by Curlyimsam)
Who's Curlyimsam?
Curlyjimsam, surely?
Oh, I knew he meant Curlyjimsam. [:)] I was just asking it the same way you asked, "Who is Kekemeis?" to Bob.
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by elemtilas »

Khemehekis wrote: 18 Aug 2020 01:56
elemtilas wrote: 13 Aug 2020 18:10
Khemehekis wrote: 13 Aug 2020 12:04 Also, note this part:

https://sites.google.com/site/jankogore ... _languages
An oversight requiring immediate fixation!
You mean no Avantimannish?
Coo, guess I never tendered the numbers! Well, that oversight's on me!

Oh, I knew he meant Curlyjimsam. [:)] I was just asking it the same way you asked, "Who is Kekemeis?" to Bob.
Ha!

[>_<]
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Bob »

Here's a summary of my work on these languages and Ferengi that I just made for facebook's largest Star Trek group. You can read the full version on my group on Conlang Decipherment and History. It repeats what I've previously said here but then also adds new things.

This essay mostly refers to my experiences with conlangers on facebook and on other websites than this one. I just joined this one a month ago and have been too busy to read around to see what past and present posters and repliers are like. Anybody wants to add or refute, go for it. I just do the best with what I got.

Of course, I think I have recently been told that this website is an exception to experience, and contains many professional language scientists and conlangers of such a sort that they really know all about language science and welcome people with language science degrees and or years of experience studying and making conlangs. In which case, happily, those parts of the essay would not apply to this present euphoric and eulogic eutopia.

I also wrote this essay for mildly interested professional and non-professional language scientists that I know over facebook. Who sometimes read what I write.

A lot of the point of essays like this over facebook is not that people read them, though I'm pretty sure that people do read them, even if they don't like them. The point is more of establishing myself as a "facebook scholar" and being available for all sorts of people, and testing my patience and finesse with whomever responds. Being a top admin on facebook is like being a butler at a country club and being a top posting member is not that much difference. You're a bit of a tool and if you really had a gigantic ego, well, look at all the people who don't post to facebook or don't run facebook groups. I do it mostly for the people from the Third World who have questions but no time and little money. It is a such a strain and test of my patience and abilities, though. It's no wonder there's hardly any academics on facebook groups or otherwise: They put up with enough for their jobs as it is.

But you always have to worry about people not getting jokes because of regional sense of humor and because people are just not that imaginative. On facebook, I really do think that people see your profile picture and think a certain thing. On some conlanging online communities off facebook, I think it's what you type about that does something similar for people. "Hippocleides careth not."

I read that there was something about stepping on people's toes in the rules for this website, though. So I'll ask leeway for this one but not make it a habit. Part of the problem is that facebook posts are ready for multiple related audiences whereas these online conlang communities are very mono-audience and maybe more like the sort of presentation style that's seen in academia. Which in general is very much in contrast with the conversational and quick style seen on facebook.



...
...

On Star Trek Invented Languages and Invented Languages in General

by Larry Rogers, BA Language Science** from Michigan State University.

The past 3 weeks, I've been studying and making translations into Star Trek languages, "pseudo-languages", and "semi-languages" from across the decades. I've finished quick translations into Klingon and Vulcan, and am now working on one into Ferengi. I also did one into Mutsun after the Klingon one but Mutsun is a Native American language studied by the creator of Klingon.

I study this stuff because I'm a amateur language scientist, with a BA Linguistics, who specializes in the study of invented languages, especially those from famous books, tv, and movies. One of my greater specializations is logographic writing systems like Chinese, Japanese, Mayan Hieroglyphic, and Egyptian Hieroglyphic.

...

Klingon, made by Professor Marc Okrand.

Here is its main facebook group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LearnKlingon/

Then here is the facebook group I have for this and the other Star Trek languages, plus Mutsun (Native American, California) and other languages studied by the creator of Klingon, Professor Mark Okrand.

Okrand Languages Club: Klingon Language, Vulcan, Atlantean, Mutsun

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1964442153857834/

...

The Vulcan Languages, made by tv show writers, novelists, etc, and fans from the 1960s to present. The Vulcan Languages of The Vulcan Language Institute are notable among these. These were made using the above material by a group of about 40 scientists and non-scientists from around the world in the 80s and 90s, lead by former army polyglot Mark Gardner of Oregon, USA. It's really notable how much better and more interesting of a conlang Vulcan is compared to Klingon and how much more capable of a community it has gathered over the years: The Klingon community is notable for its reluctance to make up its own vocabulary and grammar for Klingon and for the inconsistency and increased irreality of the resulting language. Notably, the original premises of "The Klingon Dictionary" from 1985 have not been matched by subsequent elaborations either by its fans or even its creator, Marc Okrand. Whereas Vulcan was "grammatically expanded" from almost nothing by fans and as a result is quite full-bodied and even consistent. See below for the discussion of the phenomena at play in this.

Here is its main facebook group:

Vuhlkansu

https://www.facebook.com/groups/151394342198570/

...

The Ferengi Languages, made by tv show writers for episodes "Little Green Men", 1995, and "Acquisition", 2002, and deciphered and expanded in 1995 by Timothy Miller and David Salo, future invented language consultant for The Lord of the Rings films, and in 2017 by Amino Apps website author "GeekyDreams" (Lir Soracia in real life?). All of them seem inspired by Klingon grammar to varying degrees.

Okrand Languages Club: Klingon Language, Vulcan, Atlantean, Mutsun

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1964442153857834/

...

To follow my progress in studying and translating into these languages over 3-4 weeks or so, please join that Okrand Languages facebook group and then see what I end up putting on my websites:

Guide to "Any Language at All" Encyclopedic Website and Other Websites by Me

https://anylanguageatall411.blogspot.co ... w=flipcard

...

Other Star Trek languages: The Ferengi Languages materials talk of a Trill Language. Otherwise, I forget what others there are or might be. Memory Alpha and Memory Beta probably list them, but not for fanonical works. For episodes earlier this year, Trent Pehrson was hired to make a Romulan Language or something like that.

...

Thoughts on Star Trek languages:

Mostly only show creators and fans study or contribute to these languages and these are distinct from language scientists and language scholars, thought there's some overlap between the two.

The best of them all are the Vulcan Languages made by the Vulcan Language Institute: It required the most work to create, has the largest and most interesting vocabulary, and was made over the largest time span. It's also more realistic and better done than Klingon.

Unfortunately, far more people have studied and have ever been interested in Klingon, mostly because of hype and numbers. It's somewhat promoted as "The Star Trek Language". My own work on these languages, which I hope to eventually get online for free, points out such things about these languages.

The other languages are very interesting but seemingly very few people have studied them. Again, the problem is that the people interested lack the knowledge of language science, and visa versa. And this is all despite Klingon being the second most popular fictional invented language of the past 150 years, after Elvish (Quenya) from "The Lord of the Rings" by Tolkein, and not counting the international lingua franca Esperanto.

All the languages except Klingon show strong influence from English because they're based on work by tv show writers or novelists who don't know much about foreign languages or language science. Other flaws in the languages also stem from the involved creators not being much of studied hobbyists of language invention (called "conlangers"). Making a good language that's sufficiently not like English and otherwise balanced yet interesting is difficult. The "Acquisition Episode Ferengi Language" showed influence from English, French, and maybe Modern or Ancient Greek and the teleplay writers have French-sounding names. I also suspect they got uncredited outside help for that one OR the transcription of the language on Memory Alpha and Memory Beta is a hoax by someone like David Salo.

...

Further thoughts on language scientists vs. conlangers vs. conlanger imitators:

It's also notable that I find a dearth of talent among conlangers as a whole. Many are amateur language scientists, without degrees, or strongly influenced by the mentalities of the same. So, as for interest in Star Trek languages, there's a distinction between people interested in making up languages extensively and those with knowledge of multiple foreign languages and language science, with some overlap between the two.

Who is interested in making up languages? It seems that a lot of them are fans of Western fantasy and science-fiction books, but maybe less so tv or movies, things like live action role-playing, and table-top miniature gaming like Dungeons and Dragons and such. Maybe many are also video game people. There's a definite and comparable "sausage party" feeling about these communities, too. They're mostly imitators of Tolkein or imitators of imitators of Tolkein, author of "Lord of the Rings".

And many are computer programmers, whom I have found to otherwise show interest in language science but almost entirely lack competence therein. They lack the drive to do sufficient studies on their own, or get input from more able people, to do good work. There is a mechanicalness and impatience about them, coupled with wealth, which inhibits them in hobby persuit of language science. Perhaps to them, in part, language science is a joke because it doesn't pay as well as computer programming and few people study it. But this is not the way to treat science.

Language science is very serious because people use - and unfortunately abuse - language constantly. Language science offers unique hope of a brighter future - discouraging and undervalueing its dedicated scientists and scholars is very bad. Computer programmers often get a "god mentality" because they have much control in the realm of computers - which contrasts to their notable lack of control outside the realm of computers.

Not that I'm trying to upset them: They're often company for me in my studies. But I have a moral obligation as an excellent scientist, scholar, and anthropologist to lay down my experience for the improvement of all. Progress is notably less sugar-coated than the road to ruin.

It's notable that I have often found myself on the end of really inane online abuse from major and minor online conlanging personalities, over the past 15 years. There is jealousy and misunderstanding for people who can or do make the commitment to science to get a degree in linguistics. Caveat emptor. So linguists need to beware of such people and band together one with another against yet another manifestation of popular ignorance and anti-intellectualism and anti-science mentalities, no dout often unintended and unrealized.

...

So the perennial related questions:

Is it worth the budget to hire an accomplished conlanger like David Peterson, of Game of Thrones, or hire an "imitation conlanger" like Paul Frommer of the Avatar film, to make invented languages for books, tv, or movies? Of course, in his book "The Art of Language Invention", David Peterson argues for it. But I argue against it as too much hassle for the actors. It's very much like special effects in that it involves cutting edge science. But it's also distinct from them.

That said, was it worth the effort for the writers (or hidden others) for the 1995 episode "Little Green Men" or the 2002 episode "Acquisition" to make (sizeable) languages or pseudo-languages for their episodes? Especially considering that it may not have been until now, August 2020, that either was realized for what it is by a language scientist of sufficient ability and interest.

It's also notable that online conlangers seem little interested in conlangs from books, movies, or tv. They seem mostly interested in their own work because it's far more complex or otherwise to their liking. They also seem very sensitive to jealousy, maybe due to autism or "genius" or whatever you want to call it. There is an noteable erraticness about them which I have noticed over the years. Not only that, but they also have extended little welcome to me over the past 15 years, so there's a low level of tolerance for conlanging diversity. Among other types of diversity. Again, comparisons can be made to the Western video game community.

...

That all said, I really think the tv show writers for 1995's "Little Green Men" and 2002's "Acquition" did a really great job, especially the second one. And then the fan developments or inspirations from these works were also very interesting. I wonder why the show producers made these languages, if it was part of some strategy to build up interest in the show or something, or test the fans and audiences. The 1995 one was during an era when Klingon was quite popular, books still being printed on considerable scale by Marc Okrand regarding it.

But I can especially appreciate such things because I also specialize in the study of modern and historic pseudo-linguistics, ESL education, and such. But few language scientists get much into the study of modern or historical pseudo-linguistics, and seemingly fewer conlangers. Which is all fine by me, I've been at this sort of thing 15 years and have made many amazing discoveries. I do and don't have a thick skin for this sort of thing. I do shake off this sort of thing and even come to anticipate it. "You can't have it all", and "You get what you put in" seem to be the proverbs of note in this situation.

The 1995 Timothy Miller conlang was brought to my attention by Yuri Mihálik of Los Angeles, aka "Titus Aurelius", some years ago. My co-admin on my group about Okrand's Atlantean Language. And it's not until now that I have managed to find the time to examine it and even study related languages.

Major events in the recent history of conlangs in books, tv, and movies was the huge successes of Avatar and Game of Thrones, upon which David Peterson's subsequent work has built. I hear that interest in his Dothraki has died down but that now there is a notable community for his High Valyrian language.

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I'm not actually a big fan of Star Trek, though I've seen a few episodes and read a bit about it over the years. Rather, one of my specializations as an amateur language scientist, aforementioned, is deciphering conlangs from movies, tv, and books which have never been studied. I started out in 2006 with Marc Okrand's Atlantean and decided to make a minor specialization of it.

It's funny but typical that on the rare occasion that I tell people I've studied Klingon or Vulcan that they assume I'm a big fan of the show. It's more like, though, that I'm a big fan of grammar, language science, art, and theater. Note my biggest scholar specialization: Logographic writing systems. That's half "art history", the study of art. Acta est fabula. I actually personally writhe at such depictions of geniuses as that of the popular Spock and Star Trek fan Sheldon in the tv show "Big Bang Theory". But I haven't been a big tv watcher since I was a child, so I probably just don't get it and it's probably made to appeal to everyone, carefully alternating jibes like "The Simpsons". I also have studied a lot of actual anthropology and ethnography and am familiar with the issues in and involving it around the world. So there are times when reading about or watching Star Trek that I consider walking away or even regret having seen a particular episode or scene.

But then part of why I do this sort of thing, from time to time, is public outreach and in promotion of conlanging and language science (linguistics).

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** I prefer to call "linguistics" as "language science" because I consider that to be more semantically transparent. Ironically, mostly people hear "linguistics" and think "polyglotism", which is very distinct from "language science".

Language: Scientists define a language as something like French, Swahili, or obscure minority languages. There's natural languages like Spanish and then there's also constructed languages, or conlangs, like Klingon. Scientists distinguish between "languages" and "dialects" based on mutual intelligibility. A notable American dialect of English is AAVE African American Vernacular Dialect.

"Pseudo-language" : This is something that's supposed to resemble a language in many ways but is not a real language or much like one.

"Semi-language" : It's not clear whether this is a pseudo-language or a language.

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Image: Here's images of the Klingon, Mutsun, Vulcan, and Ferengi peoples. Mutsun language is Native American from California. Opp! I know what you're thinking. Surprise, I'm Mohawk (a type of Native American) by blood. I welcome non-Native Americans to study the languages, though, but some don't. Now you may proceed. Three years ago, I founded the first and one of the largest facebook groups on Native American Languages. Show you really care by joining, okay?

This image derived from this one and the Ohlone people wikipedia article.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/134052526396057643/

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Here's a favorite Original Series meme that I see a lot of around Thanksgiving and Christmas each year, just for some local colour.

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Bob
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Re: Klingon, Vulcan, and Mutsun: Quick Okrand Languages Translation Projects

Post by Bob »

Here's a funny comedy short from c 2010 from the Canadian TV station "Space". It's about a fantasy summer school which teaches Klingon to high schoolers / adults / quasi- ESL students.

"Only (near-comatose overseas ESL teachers) will remember this."

This is also a good general reflection of the Canadian mentality with regards to non-English languages, especially Native American ones. Oh, there's lip service, sure. Or maybe I'm getting Canadian and American (or Michigan) mentalities mixed up. I have way more experience with American mentalities, that's for sure. But I hear things and get a sense from Canadians from online - and offline. Me, of course, I appreciate the French. And part of the fun of certain jokes is that you can laugh while you cry.

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Yeah, also, people fun of studying Klingon but there's a lot of great grammar concepts in it. The books about it by Marc Okrand are also very cleverly written and he's quite an accomplished name in the entertainment industry besides. (President of The National Closed Captioning Institute; also president of a Washington DC area Shakespeare club.)

Learn Klingon Commercial (Rosetta Stone)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCkUapn ... FAA122C5F2


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