ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
A [haə̯ˈlætʃɨ] - [ˈuɸtʃə] - [ˈɥøy̯m] - [ˈei̯tʃə]
B [xae̯ˈdeci] - [ˈuːce] - [ˈɟø̃ỹ̯] - [ˈɪi̯ce]
AB: [xa:ˈdeci] – [ˈuhce] – [ˈɟø:m] – [ˈe:ce]
Word 1: one consonant and one vowel are correct
Word 2: one incorrect segment
Word 3: two incorrect segments
Word 4: only the final vowel is correct
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>A: /uh/ > /uɸ/, voiced stops lenite, /c/ > /tʃ/, final front vowels centralize, /e e:/ > /æ ei/
>B: /uh/ > /u:/, vowel nasalization, /h/ > /x/
None of these rules are valid.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
C [kɑːˈrɐʒi] - [ˈpurdze] - [ˈɟaːm] - [ˈeːre]
D [ɑːˈrædʒi] - [ˈpudre] - [ˈdeə̯m] - [ˈeːdze]
CD: [ka:ˈraʒi] – [ˈpurd(z)e] – [ˈdja:m] – [ˈeːze]
Word 1: two of the consonants and a vowel are correct
Word 2: if we're counting the z, then correct!
Word 3: the initial consonant(s) is/are wrong
Word 4: the consonant is incorrect
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>C: /dj/ > /ɟ/, /z/ > /r/ not in clusters, /d/ > /dz/ next to front vowels
>D: /ja:/ > /eə̯/, /rd/ metathesis, /z ʒ/ > /dz dʒ/
/ja:/ > /eə̯/ is on the right track and /rd/ metathesis is correct
The others are wrong, you have a few rules that are backwards, should help find the original forms.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
ABCD: [ka:ˈdaCi] – [ˈpurCe] – [ˈdjo:m] – [ˈeːCe]
depending on your choice for the realization of C, it might be right. I'm counting it as wrong in my responses for clarity.
Word 1: two correct vowels
Word 2: the vowels and one consonant are correct
Word 3: one correct segment
Word 4: the final vowel is correct
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>AB: Initial /p k/ > /ɸ x/ > /0 h~x/, /rC/ > /hC/ if C is voiceless, /dj/ > /ɟ/, /aCi/ > /eCi/, /jo:/ > /ø:/
>CD: Intervocalic /d C/ > /r z~ʒ/, /o:/ > /a:/
/rC/ > /hC/ if C is voiceless: the h result is incorrect and there's no voiced/voiceless contrast, but basically a correct rule
The rest are wrong.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
E [anˈtθʲi] - [ˈtθʁa] - [iˈjumʲi] - [iˈkxa]
F [arˈtsiː] - [ˈtχaː] - [iˈjuːmi] - [iˈtsaː]
EF: [arˈtsiː] – [ˈtsʁa:] – [iˈjuːmi] – [iˈksa:]
Word 1: two extra segments
Word 2: two extra segments
Word 3: one extra segment
Word 4: two extra segments
All your extra segments are due to two sound changes which occurred in one language, but you thought they were the proto-form.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>E: Coda /r/ > /n/, /ts/ > /tθ/, loss of vowel length, /ks/ > /kx/
>F: /sʁ/ > /χ/, /ks/ > /ts/
Coda /r/ > /n/ is correct
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
G [kaˈri] - [ˈtwe] - [ɪˈroi̯m] - [jɪˈɣe]
H [kaːˈθi] - [ˈtwɛj] - [eˈhəi̯m] - [dʒiˈhɛj]
GH: [ka:rˈHi] – [twej] – [erˈHojm] – [jiˈHej]
Word 1: the vowels and one consonant are correct
Word 2: one extra segment
Word 3: two correct segments, one extra segment
Word 4: H might be correct depending on your choice of realization (it's wrong everywhere else you used it though), the initial is incorrect and there's one extra segment
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>G: Laxing of unstressed vowels, deletion of /H/ in clusters, /H/ > /ɣ/ intervocalically, /ej/ > /e/
>H: /rH/ > /h/ next to back vowels, /θ/ next to front vowels. /H/ > /h/ otherwise, /oi/ > /əi̯/, initial fortition
Laxing of unstressed vowels is correct
/rH/ > /h/ next to back vowels, /θ/ next to front vowels. /H/ > /h/ otherwise: these "differing contexts" are actually because they all come from different origins.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
EFGH: [ka:rˈtʰi] – [tʰwaj] – [erˈhojmi] – [isˈkʰaj]
Word 1: one extra segment, one incorrect segment, and one partially incorrect segment
Word 2: missing a segment, one extra segment, one incorrect segment, and one partially incorrect segment (only one fully correct segment)
Word 3: one correct segment, two of the remaining segments are extra
Word 4: the structure of this word is not right, one correct vowel and one partially correct consonant
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>EF: /tʰ/ > /ts/, /sk/ > /ks/, /aj oj/ > /a: u:/, when not adjacent to a coronal /r/ > /j/. /w/ > /ɰ/ > /ʁ/, initial /k/ > /0/ in unstressed syllables
>GH: /isC/ > /içC/ > /i:C/ > /jiC/, /tʰ kʰ h/ merge as /H/ when not before a consonant. /aj/ > /ej/.
None of these are correct, but I don't have any good comments for them.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
A-H: [ka:daˈtʰi] – [ˈtʰwərde] – [rˈhjojmi] – [isˈkʰəj]
Word 1: the stress is off, the vowels are correct and one consonant is partially correct
Word 2: so the structure is not correct, but only two segments are incorrect and one is partially incorrect
Word 3: again with the structure, three correct segments
Word 4: structural problems, one partially correct segment, on fully correct segment, stress is off
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>EFGH: /daˈ deˈ/ > /rˈ jˈ/, /ə/ > /a/, deletion of non-syllabic coda /r/, syllabic /r/ > /er/, /hj/ > /ç/ > /h/
>ABCD: loss of final high vowels. Stress shift to first syllable, /tʰwə/ > /pu/, /d/ fortites in clusters, /rhj/ > /rj/ > /dj/, /oj/ > /o/, /t k/ > /C/ before high vowels. /isC/ > /e:C/.
None of these sound changes occurred, but for some the reverse occurred in the other branch.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
I [ʃɸɑ̰ˈʋɑ̰t] - [ˈʋɒ̰u̯d] - [ˈdzei̯ʎ] - [ˈjə̰ʔ]
J [sɑ̀ːtwɑ̀] - [dwɑ̀u̯] - [zéʎí] - [qə̀ː]
IJ: [sɸa:twat] – [dwaud] – [dzeiʎi] – [qe:ʔ]
IJ is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
L [o̰ːˈla] - [ˈɬøw] - [ˈtæl] - [ˈɯ̤ː]
M [ħoˈle] - [ˈlɪwi] - [ˈnæli] - [ˈhɰɯ]
LM: [ʡo:ˈlai] – [ˈlewi] – [ˈdæli] – [hɯ:]
Word 1: the initial consonant is incorrect (it may be difficult to reconstruct, so I'll accept a few alternatives. This isn't one of them), and there's a segment that doesn't need to be there
Word 2: the stressed vowel is off
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>L: /ʡ h/ > creaky/breathy voice, initials otherwise devoice. /ai/ > /a/, /e/ rounds next to /w/, final /i/ deleted.
>M: /ʡ/ > /ħ/, shortening of unstressed long vowels, voiced stops > nasals, /ai e/ > /e ɪ/
/ʡ h/ > creaky/breathy voice: you're on to something here, think about what consonantal differences might have led to the creaky vs. breathy distinction.
initials otherwise devoice: Correct!
final /i/ deleted: this technically applied to all unstressed short vowels, but only the final Is were affected.
/ʡ/ > /ħ/: this will be a valid rule once you get the proto-form of the consonant correct
shortening of unstressed long vowels: this came with an additional feature, which was lost in word 1 due to something additional in the previous change I commented on.
voiced stops > nasals: correct!
/ai e/ > /e ɪ/: the proto-forms are wrong here, but the rule did happen
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
IJLM: [swa:dwad] – [dwewdi] – [dajli] – [qi:ʔ]
IJLM is not a valid grouping
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
A-JLM: [swa:dwadʰi] – [dʰwerde] – [rhjolmi] – [iskʰi:ʔ]
This is not a valid grouping
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
N [aɴˈqχɔdə] - [ˈqadɮə] - [inˈɮɛɬ] - [ˈŋɘgɯ]
O [iχˈχoda] - [ˈqædza] - [ilˈlela] - [ˈʔiga]
NO: [əɴˈχodə] – [ˈqadlə] – [inˈleɬ] – [ˈʔəgə]
Word 1: the first three segments are incorrect
Word 2: two incorrect segments
Word 3: missing a segment, two of the consonants are incorrect
Word 4: only the stressed vowel is incorrect
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
N: /ə/ > /a/ next to uvulars, /ɯ/ next to velars, /ɘ/ stressed. /ʔ/ > /ŋ/, /l/ > /ɮ/
O: /NC/ > /CC/, /ə/ > /i/ stressed or /a/ unstressed, /dl/ > /dɮ/ >/ dz/, final vowels inserted. Temporary stress shift to first syllable.
/ɯ/ next to velars: this is the only correct part of your rule regarding schwa in NO. Perhaps the others don't fit because schwa was never there to begin with...
/ʔ/ > /ŋ/: Correct!, but this rule has more parts that may aid in reconstructing words 1 and 3.
/ə/ > /i/ stressed or /a/ unstressed: stress isn't a part of this rule, the a and i come from different original vowels
/dl/ > /dɮ/ >/ dz/: only the second half of this rule is correct.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
P [tʃə̯æi̯ˈjoθə] - [ˈjæi̯dəʒə] - [əˈʒeːə̯] - [ˈɨːə̯]
Q [θəseˈccoj] - [ˈjeɟɟəj] - [dəˈjeçə] - [ˈθɨcc]
PQ [təsajˈjoθə] – [ˈjajdəʒə] – [dəˈʒehə] - [ˈðɨjjə]
Word 1: one incorrect vowel, two incorrect consonants, a third consonant is not what I had but I'll count it as essentially correct
Word 2: the syllabic part of the diphthong is incorrect
Word 3: Essentially correct! You've picked some alternative reconstructions here, but I'm accepting them
Word 4: the stressed vowel is off in length, and the final vowel is correct. Both consonants are incorrect
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>P: Metathesis, /aj/ > /æi/, deletion of initial voiced unstressed consonants, /ð/ > /0/, intervocalic consonants turn into lengthened vowel
>Q: /ð/ > /θ/, /jj/ > /cc/, /jd/ > /ɟɟ/, /ʒ ð/ lenite to /j/ intervocalically
There is no metathesis in P, but there is in Q
/ð/ > /0/: this happened, but not in the place you think, /ð/ was an intermediate stage for a sound change that resulted in a lost phoneme.
/ʒ ð/ lenite to /j/ intervocalically: this is correct, but only for ʒ.
NOPQ: [tənsˈxotə] – [ˈxajdlə] – [dənˈlelhə] – [ˈðəgjə]
Word 1: the final syllable and one other vowel are correct
Word 2: the final vowel is correct, but every other segment is only slightly off
Word 3: You have one too many syllables in this word, two of the vowels are correct, and the consonants that belong aren't too far off
Word 4: only the final vowel is correct
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
R [ʔɑ́ːddʒèːð] - [ɸǿːl] - [ʒèːl] - [χèːð]
S [áːzèi̯dʒí] - [bói̯ɫɯ̀] - [ʒèi̯ɫý] - [ɢèi̯dzí]
T [ʔǽɪ̯zzèdʑí] - [pǿʎɤ̀] - [ʒèʎý] - [qèdʑé]
U [ɑ̀ɣzə̀zâʃsì] - [wówlè] - [ʒàʒlý] - [zə̀zîʃsè]
V [ɑːrràttʃi] - [ówle] - [daʒlú] - [ərrìttʃe]
RSTUV: [aɣzzajtsi] – [bo:jlɤ] – [dʒajlu] – [ɢzejtse]
This is a valid groupings, but there are some subgroups you missed that take place first.
Word 1: you're missing a consonant, and there is one incorrect segment
Word 2: one extra consonant, and the initial consonant is off
Word 3: only the final vowel is off
Word 4: the first syllable is incorrect
All these words are missing something. It's retained in all the daughter langs so I'm not sure why you didn't include it.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
W [hæːˈzɑh] - [ˈhoh] - [ˈjeɫv̩] - [ˈçiːh]
X [hæːˈzɑːðə] - [ˈhoːʐə] - [ˈeːjɫu] - [ˈhiːɣə]
WX [hæ:ˈzɑθə] – [ˈho:ʂə] – [ˈjeɫu] – [ˈhiːxə]
Word 1: Correct!
Word 2: there is an extra segment
Word 3: Correct!
Word 4: Correct!
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>W: Deletion of /ə/, final voiceless fricatives > /h/, /u/ > /v̩/, shortening of closed syllable vowels, /e:/ > /je/
>X: Voicing of intervocalic fricatives, /je/ > /e:/ > /e:j/
shortening of closed syllable vowels: this did not happen, hopefully that will help you figure out which segment doesn't belong in word 2.
/je/ > /e:/ > /e:j/: this was actually just simple metathesis, the length arose by other means.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
Y [ʂaːràtə] - [ʙóɻʷə] - [jawú] - [ʀìːcə]
Z [ʐaɐ̯rə̀də] - [ʙóɖɵ] - [jəlú] - [ʀèi̯gɨ]
YZ [ʐaːratə] – [ʙoɖwə] – [jalu] – [ʀi:kə]
Word 1: the initial consonant is slightly off, the rest of the consonants and the final vowel are correct
Word 2: Sorta correct (I'll explain below)! It's not quite what I had, but I'm accepting it as an alternate reconstruction
Word 3: the second consonant is missing something, think about its reflexes. the first vowel is incorrect as well
Word 4: Sorta correct again! the k has an extra feature that may help with determining sound changes
All these words are missing something, and it was retained in both daughter langs so it should be easy to find. If you include it, the two that I said were sorta correct will be totally correct.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>Y: Initials devoice, voiced stops lenite intervocalically, /l/ > /w/
>Z: /ə/ > /ɨ/ next to palatal or velar. /a: a i:/ > /aɐ̯ ə ei/, /wə/ > /ɵ/
voiced stops lenite intervocalically: basically a correct rule
/l/ > /w/: /l/ had some feature that made it predisposed to become /w/
/ə/ > /ɨ/ next to palatal or velar: only around palatal(ized) consonants
/a: a i:/ > /aɐ̯ ə ei/: correct, though a: and a are not the proto-forms
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
WXYZ: [ʂaːˈzatsə] – [ˈpro:ʈwə] – [ˈjalu] – [ˈqriːkə]
Word 1: two vowels and ts are off
Word 2: the initial is incorrect, it should be a single consonant, and another consonant is also superfluous
Word 3: the stressed vowel is off
Word 4: same problem with the initial as word 2
These words are all missing a feature, the same one as in YZ
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
>WX: /p q ʂ/ > /h/, intervocalic lenition, /ja/ > /je/, /a a:/ > /ɑ æ:/
>YZ: /pr qr/ > /ʙ ʀ/, /s z/ > /z r/
/p q ʂ/ > /h/: you're right that initial consonants became /h/, but why did they? (hint: only two of those are correct proto-forms)
intervocalic lenition: Correct!
/ja/ > /je/: the vowel in WXYZ is incorrect, but otherwise spot-on
/a a:/ > /ɑ æ:/: the proto forms are still incorrect, but you're right that an initial length contrast became a quality difference as well.
There are three trills in YZ. They all came from the same source, but with different POAs
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
R-Z: [arha:ˈdzajti] – [ˈtportle] – [ˈjajlwi] – [iqˈse:ke]
Word 1: the final syllable is correct
Word 2: the stressed vowel is correct
Word 3: one vowel and one consonant are correct
Word 4: the final syllable is correct
All four words are missing a feature. I've discussed its presence in many of my earlier comments.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
A-JLM: [swa:dwadʰi] – [dʰwerde] – [rhjolmi] – [iskʰi:ʔ]
R-Z: [arha:ˈdzajti] – [ˈtportle] – [ˈjajlwi] – [iqˈse:ke]
A-JLMR-Z: [r̩hwa:ˈdzwajtʰi] – [ˈtʰwərtle] – [r̩nˈhjojlmi] – [ikʰˈse:ke]
This is not a valid grouping.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
K [ʃnɑːˈŋɑθ] - [ˈɲɒːθ] - [ˈdʑei̯] - [ˈŋəːx] appears to be an outlier of sorts, I’m not yet sure how it fits in.
Ks most "outlier-y" feature came from a single source. Finding this source will help you find its origins.
ɶʙ ɞʛ wrote: ↑07 Dec 2020 19:56
My first guess:
[r̩hwa:ˈdzwajtʰi] – [ˈtʰwərtle] – [r̩nˈhjojlmi] – [ikʰˈse:ke]
Word 1: the vowels are all correct, the consonants are all either wrong or extra
Word 2: one correct segment
Word 3: two correct segments
Word 4: technically 4.5 correct segments, but it's all way out of order