Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Nortaneous
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Nortaneous »

Nortaneous wrote: Kastas ... sucks and I'm probably killing it
DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS

In the earliest written records of Rau*, the consonant inventory is superficially similar to that of Old Kangshi, the source of the Rau script. All Old Kangshi consonants except /z r/ are also attested in Rau, and two consonant series were innovated by alteration of the series of /s d ts dz/, giving the appearance of a phoneme inventory of: (writing ŋ ʁ instead of the ñ h of Kangshi romanization)

m n ŋ
p t ts ts₂ k q
b d d₂ dz dz₂
s s₂ x
g ʁ

d2 = l
s s2 = sh lh

The Old Rau attestations n.baxdzun and n.ts₂twxwb for the place-names Bâghzon and Ltoúhoub demonstrate that x was used for both the velar and the uvular fricatives, but this is the only defect in the script. These two sounds are in near-complementary distribution, with /χ/ occurring in back-vocalic environments and /x/ occurring otherwise, but diphthong loss and syncope predating Old Rau created some unpredictable occurrences - cf. the Ngabtou name for Baghzon, /baixəɟuːŋ/.

This near-complementary distribution of velars and uvulars was further disturbed by the merger of ts₂ dz₂, identifiable as lateral obstruents by vacillations such as the aforementioned n.ts₂twxwp for Ltouhoub and by comparison with other Hathic languages, into k g. However, a robust contrast between /g/ and /ʁ/ must be reconstructed for the common ancestor of Rau and Ngabtou, both of which reflect Continental Hathic *r as a dorsal, although Ngabtou shows secondary fronting - the Ngabtou culture hero /paɾaɣǐn-tuɣàn/ is known in Rau as Houlrỉn. (The shift of *p to Rau /χ/ is irregular but not uncommon.)

As for the other consonants, /g/ was a plosive (rather than a fricative, as it is in Kangshi) and s s₂ d₂ correspond to /s ɬ l/. Precise phonetic values for the affricates ts dz cannot be established; they correspond to Proto-Continental Hathic *c *ɟ, were presumably affricates when Rau began to be written, and are reflected in the spoken Rau of the current year as /θ ɹ/.

The consonants of spoken Rau in the current year are, in an abstract analysis that largely follows the romanization:

/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/p t (ʈ) k q/ <p t tt k q>
/b d ɹ g~j ʁ/ <b d z g r> (note: /g/ is [j] in codas)
(/θ͈ s͈ ɬ͈ x͈ χ͈/) <st sht lt ghk hq>
/θ s ɬ x χ/ <s sh l gh q>
+ unwritten /ɣ/ excreted after word-final /ɯ/ which may be unstressed

These consonants can be divided into fortis-lenis pairs. Nasals are lenis and unpaired, although one could just as well posit unit prenasalized stops /mb nd ŋg ɴɢ/ as the fortis variants of nasals. /ʈ/, the fortis analogue of /ɹ/, has no regular diachronic origin and was introduced by loans from western Vengic languages like Narng and Qoa; many speakers merge it into /t/. Fortis consonants are always unvoiced, articulated more forcefully, often aspirated, and prohibited in codas; lenis consonants are often voiced, tend to coalesce with unstressed schwa to produce syllabic consonants, and are allowed in codas. In fact, the series /b d ɹ g ʁ/ is preferentially syllabified into the coda (unless an onset slot of a stressed syllable is available) and exerts great effect on preceding vowels: shtíbor 'skin' is pronounced [ɕʰjúwɐʁ]. (Fortis fricatives developed from a sequence of fricative and homorganic fortis stop, although this is blocked below a certain level of juncture.)

It is late here and I don't know how vowels work yet so here is an example sentence that ignores tones.
in bzogs te mnar blqudou na harib hshtir boa toug ash beshtad.
[m.brojθ.tʰə mnɐβ.ɬqʰə.dɯɣ.nə χɐ.juwχ.ɕʰjɐw.ɐʁ tʰɨɣ.ʒ.β.ʃʰæð]

There are various juncture levels, one tone-bearing stressed vowel per Copticesque phrasal group, all the normal Rau things. I think the unstressed vowels are dominant ɐ and recessive schwa which is raised to barred i by velars incl. /j/ or something.

* Rau = Xaukatai = Kastas
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Omzinesý
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

I'm now fascinated by Ket.

t k
b d
m n ŋ
l
s j ʁ

No idea of phonotactics but k combines with j and ʁ and form affricates [cç] and [qχ].

Probably a simple pich accent that can appear on a vowel segment. It could be accompanied by a phonemic creaky voice in some contexts, probably before voiced consonants.


Maybe with length distinction
i ɨ u
e o
ä
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Omzinesý
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

This could become a nice small project, relatively analytic.
It could be nicely derived from a real proto-language.

1) p t k q
(ʔ)
3) ɸ s θ x χ
4) β ð j ʁ
5) m n ɴ l

i u
e o
ɛ ɔ
ä
Maybe creaky, modal, and breathy voices.

Phonotactics

Last/stressed syllable
Onset: 1), 3), 5, probably some of 3)
Nucleus: any vowel
Coda: 4), 5)

Plural marker of nouns is -ʔ that can follow the coda consonant forming a cluster with it.
The definite article is s- and it can form an onset cluster.

Unstressed syllables before the stressed one are always CV, C being any of the allowed coda, but the internal consonant can be voiced in some contexts. Unstressed syllables cannot have varying phonations.

The basically only morphology of verbs could be what is called instrumental affixes in Amerindian languages (with teeth, by foot etc.). They belong to those unstressed prefixes.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

Proto-Trintinic:

Code: Select all

*p        *k
*m   *n
     *r   *w

*i      *u
  *e   *o
     *a
This is Vimā, a descendant of proto-Trintinic:

Code: Select all

p   t  (c)  k  (ʔ)
m   n
   l ɹ
f  θ s  ç
β  ð z

i       u
 e  ə  o
  æ ä

       oː
  æː
I'm unsure whether to add a contrastive palatal stop. /ä/ should be /ɐ/ but it looks hideous in code sections. Some branches have /p f/ → /ʔ h/; these dialects also distinguish /ʔ/ vs. /∅/ onsets where the standard has only /∅/; I'll write /ʔ/ in examples because it's unpredictable from the standard variety. /ə ɐ/ reflect historic short vowels, /i u e o æ/ long vowels and /oː æː/ nasal vowels. /f θ ç/ arise from frication of /p t k/ in all contexts other than post-consonantally or geminate. In several morphological contexts /p t k s/ alternate with /f,β θ ç z/, e.g. in the imperative form of verbs:

/fəθɐ/ "ages" > /ʔəpəθɐ/ "grow up!"
/sezə/ "open" > /ʔəsizə/ "open!"
/θɐθə/ "peels" > /ʔətɐθə/ "peel!"
/çəfɐ/ "squats" > /ʔəkəfɐ/ "squat!"

Verbs are very complicated, with the four stems (present/past/future/imperative) being formed through ablaut and partial reduplication:

/fənæːθə ~ fæːnəθə ~ fəfæːntə ~ fæːnənəθə/ "rain"
/fi ~ ʔəfi ~ fəfə ~ ʔəpe/ "sell"
/θɐftə ~ θpəθə ~ θɐptə ~ θpəftə/ "boil"
/nɐθɐm ~ ʔæːθɐm ~ nəlɐθɐ ~ ʔæːçtɐθə/ "be"
/βələθɐ ~ βələθɐ ~ βəmpɹəθɐ ~ ərɐθɐ/ "have"
/βəmæː ~ əmæː ~ βəβmæː ~ əməmæː/ "speak"
/ɹo ~ ʔɐɹo ~ ɹoɹə ~ ʔɐɹo/ "cook"
etc.

Syllable structure is CCVC where permissible onsets are /p t k f β θ ð ç/ + /l ɹ/ or /f θ ç/ + /p t k/ other than */fp θt çk/. Stress is consistently on the initial syllable.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

A double post, but so be it. The board's pretty slow at the moment so I'm doing my best to keep things going [:P]

M̈p̈'agu

/n̼k͡ǃ̼ɛ.ŋʷθ̼̩/

I saw on an old topic someone suggested a change /mʷ/ → /mf/ → /ɱ/ to explain a labiodental nasal/series, which made me want to try something like that out. Here's the absolutely vile phonology I somehow ended up with:

CONSONANTS
/ɱ n̼ n ŋ ŋʷ/ <m m̈ n g̈ g>
/p̪͡f t̼ t k kʷ/ <f f̈ t c̈ c>
/v ð̼ l ɣ w/ <v v̈ l ẅ w>

All the coronals are alveolar.
/ɱ/ is generally realised as [ʋ̃] due to the difficulty in producing a complete seal against the teeth. It could even be something like labio-alveolar [m̪̠], which I can comfortably produce therefore I can pretend it's naturalistic.
/t k/ are slightly affricated to [t͡s k͡x] in syllable-initial position.
Re the orthography, umlauts on labials are used to represent linguolabials in some langs; historically speaking this would represent lack of rounding in M̈p̈'agu, hence how it's used on the velars.


CLICKS
/k͡ʘ̪ k͡ǃ̼ k͡ǃ/ <p' p̈' t'>

How could I resist?
These nasalise after a nasal.


VOWELS
/i ɤ ɛ/ <e o a>
/s̩ θ̼̩/ <i u>

Oh, you better believe I'm adding a syllabic linguolabial fricative. And romanising it with <u>. [}:D]
It's probably actually a voiceless approximant [θ̼̞̩] as there's little audible frication, but who's got room for three diacritics below a θ?
/ɤ θ̼̩/ become [o f̩] following a rounded or labiodental consonant.
/ɛ/ is often [æ] especially in the vicinity of a velar or click.


PHONOTACTICS
Maximum syllable of CCVC where permitted onsets are homorganic nasal + obstruent /ɱp̪͡f ɱv ɱk͡ʘ̪/ etc. Coda can be any consonant including clicks, but only homorganic codas occur after /s̩ θ̼̩/ (i.e. /s̩n s̩t s̩l s̩k͡ǃ θ̼̩n̼ θ̼̩t̼ θ̼̩ð̼ θ̼̩k͡ǃ̼/); when /θ̼̩/ is realised as [f̩] it can be followed only by /ɱ p̪͡f v k͡ʘ̪/.
Stress is word-initial and non-contrastive.


SAMPLE WORDS
neg̈ci [ˈniŋ.kʷs̩]
ẅof̈am [ˈɣɤ.t̼ɛɱ]
p'ucontuf̈ [ˈk͡ʘ̪f̩.kʷon.t͡sθ̼̩t̼]
falotiẅ [ˈp̪͡fɛ.lɤ.t͡siɣ]
p̈'ap̈'a [ˈk͡ǃ̼æ.k͡ǃ̼æ]
v̈og̈c̈avo [ˈð̼ɤŋ.k͡xæ.vo]
m̈itcup' [ˈn̼s̩t.kʷf̩k͡ʘ̪]
t'of̈e [ˈk͡ǃɤ.p̪͡fi]
f̈elege [ˈt̼i.li.ŋʷi]
p̈'up̈' [ˈk͡ǃ̼θ̼̩k͡ǃ̼]

And with that last one I've successfully produced the most hideous syllable the world has ever seen.
This probably won't go anywhere, or I could chuck it on some random island in Kokhene, maybe even as part of a small family.



The derivation of this bullshit:
Spoiler:
Original phonology:

/mʷ m n ŋ ŋʷ/
/pʷ p t k kʷ/
/βʷ β l ɣ w/
/k͡ʘʷ k͡ʘ k͡!/

/i ɯᵝ e ɤᵝ a/

with:

*m p β k͡ʘ → n̼ t̼ ð̼ k͡ǃ̼
I think the unrounded labial → linguolabial shift is attested somewhere, probably heightens contrast with /mʷ pʷ βʷ k͡ʘʷ/ (?)

*mʷ pʷ βʷ k͡ʘʷ → *mv pf v k͡ʘf → ɱ p̪͡f v k͡ʘ̪

And an upwards vowel shift of

*i ɯᵝ e ɤᵝ a → *z̩ β̩ i ɤ ɛ

Then following the same shift as the labial consonants, plus devoicing

*z̩ β̩ → s̩ θ̼̩


Dialects/sister langs could have n̼ n → n ɳ and/or ŋʷ → ŋ͡m (→m), basically some combination which means cognates have really fucked up POA correspondences.
TLDR: The contrast /mʷ m/ has shifted to one of /ɱ n̼/.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

VaptuantaDoi wrote: 22 Feb 2023 12:04 A double post, but so be it. The board's pretty slow at the moment so I'm doing my best to keep things going [:P]
You’re doing great! We stan
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

DesEsseintes wrote: 23 Feb 2023 14:04
VaptuantaDoi wrote: 22 Feb 2023 12:04 A double post, but so be it. The board's pretty slow at the moment so I'm doing my best to keep things going [:P]
You’re doing great! We stan
Hooray!

In that case, here's three (edit: 4) (double edit: 7) more random phonologies. I sure do love making phonologies I'll never use instead of doing literally anything productive.

Nuxalk on crack - let's call it Aásˀtpˀįdocxah:

/t t͡ʙ̥ t͡s k͡ʙ̥ k͡s q q͡ʙ̥/ <t tp ts kp ks q qp>
/d d͡ʒ ɡ͡z/ <d ǧ gz>
/t’ t͡ʙ̥’ t͡s’ t͡ɬ’ t͡ʃ’ k͡ʙ̥’ k͡s’ q’ q͡ʙ̥’/ <tˀ tpˀ tsˀ tśˀ tšˀ kpˀ ksˀ qˀ qpˀ>
/θ s ɬ ʃ x ʍ χ/ <θ s ś š c f x>
/z/ <z>
/s’/ <sˀ>
/n/ <n>
/l j w/ <l y w>

/i ɨ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ/ <i į ǫ v o a>
Spoiler:
/t͡ʙ̥ k͡ʙ̥ q͡ʙ̥ t͡ʙ̥’ k͡ʙ̥’ q͡ʙ̥’/ vary dialectally between:
a) bilabial trill release [t͡ʙ̥ k͡ʙ̥ q͡ʙ̥ t͡ʙ̥’ k͡ʙ̥’ q͡ʙ̥’]
b) labiodental tap release [t͡ⱱ̥ k͡ⱱ̥ q͡ⱱ̥ t͡ⱱ̥’ k͡ⱱ̥’ q͡ⱱ̥’]
c) complete labial assimilation [p p p p’ p’ p’]
d) complete debuccalisation [h h h ʔ ʔ ʔ]
Tones are H, M, MH-long, L-breathy and L-creaky-long:
/á ā a᷄ a̤ a̰ː/ <á a aá ah aɂ> (just pretend that the base letter is actually a phoneme in this language)
L creaky generates a glottal stop at word boundaries.

This is based on underlying register/tone interaction:

Code: Select all

     | Register
Tone | ∅  ^  ʰ
   ∅ | a  aá ah
   H | a  á  aɂ
Some affixes are probably just reduced to register or something.

Syllable structure is permissive of long obstruent onset clusters but only simple CR resonant clusters. Codas are restricted to /n t’ k͡s’ q’/ which only occur word-finally, and phonetic [ʔ] caused by L creaky tone.
Obstruent clusters have a rock-paper-scissors rule where D cannot follow T’, T’ cannot follow T, and T cannot follow D; i.e. clusters of the type */q’z θk͡ʙ̥’ ɡ͡zʍ/ are not permitted but /qz zk͡ʙ̥’ t͡ɬ’t͡s/ are permitted. This rule keeps on applying leftwards, allowing things like /t͡ʙ̥ds’qt/ etc.

Here's some words:
Spoiler:
/k͡sd͡ʒʌ́θɬɔ̰ː/ <ksǧv́θśoɂ>
/s’k͡ʙ̥t͡skɨ̄nɔ᷄ːq͡ʙ̥līk’/ <sˀkptskįnoóqplikˀ>
/dwɞ̰ːɡ͡zt͡ʃ’ɬχzɔ̤n/ <dwǫɂgztšˀśxzohn>
/tɡ͡zq’ɨ́/ <tgzqˀį́>
/æ᷄ːs’t͡ʙ̥’ɨ̄dɔ̄xχæ̤/ <aásˀtpˀįdocxah>
/θɬdʌ́nɞ́ʃʃzt͡ɬ’ɨ̤q’/ <θśdv́nǫ́ššztśˀįhqˀ>


Adnyamathanha meets Ontena Gadsup:

/ʔ/ <'>
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ/ <m n rn ny ng>
/v ð̠ ɻ j ɣ w/ <v~b r~d rr~d y~dy h~g w>
/l ɭ ʎ/ <l rl ly>

/i iː u uː a aː/ <i ii u uu a aa>

A historical lenition occurred by which *p t ʈ c k became /v ð̠ ɻ j ɣ/; now their stop allophones [p t ʈ c k] only surface after /ʔ/ and in voiced form [b d ɖ ɟ ɡ] after a homorganic nasal or lateral. Also after coda /ʔ/, nasals are prestopped.

Syllable structure is CVC:
- nasals cannot occur word-initially
- word-finally any coda other than /v ð̠ ɻ j ɣ w/ is permissible (here /ʎ ɲ/ are written <yl yn>)
- word-internally only homorganic nasal or lateral + "stop" or /ʔ/ + anything are permitted.
- All words are an even number of syllables; primary stress on 1 and secondary stress on 3.
- Surface diphthongs [ai̯ au̯] and some long high vowels [iː uː] reflect underlying bisyllabic /aji awu iji uwu/ and thus surface as odd-syllabled
- In unstressed syllables, short /i u a/ centralise to [ɪ ʊ ə]
Spoiler:
/ʔaːmvaɣaɭi/ <'aambaharli>
/ʎawuɭɻaɲju/ <lyawurldandyu>
/vaːʔi/ <vaa'i>
/aɲjamaːja/ <andyamaaya>
/vajið̠iʔɣiŋ/ <vayiri'ging>
/ɭuːʔvuʎ/ <rluu'buyl>
/ɻalð̠amiʔji/ <rraldami'dyi>
/waʔmuwuɳa/ <wa'muwurna>
/uɳɻijina/ <urndiyina>
/uʔjiːnaŋa/ <u'dyiinanga>
/ʔuːʔnanð̠aʔð̠a/ <'uu'nanda'da>
/viːmiɭ/ <viimirl>
This might make it onto Kokhene somewhere.



And finally here's an old project which I'm kinda revamping. It's very very tenuously inspired by Alál. The proto-lang had only four consonants and four vowels:

/t k/ *t k
/n ŋ/ *n g

/i u/ *i u
/ɛ ɔ/ *e o

(Definitely absolutely nothing like proto-Nomadic in any way whatsoever)
These all have "flat" forms, the treatment of which differs in different branches; they're transcribed as small caps *ᴛ ᴋ ɴ ɢ ɪ ᴜ ᴇ ᴀ. One branch treats it as aspiration:
**ᴛ ᴋ ɴ ɢ => */tʰ kʰ n̥ʰ ŋ̊ʰ/, **ɪ ᴜ ᴇ ᴀ => */i̤ ṳ ɛ̤ ɔ̤/

Another branch as pharyngealisation:
**ᴛ ᴋ ɴ ɢ => */tˤ kˤ nˤ ŋˤ/, **ɪ ᴜ ᴇ ᴀ => /ɨˤ ʊˤ ɜˤ ɒˤ/

And another branch as a combination of features:
**ᴛ ᴋ ɴ ɢ => /ʈ͡ʂ p ɳ m/, *ɪ ᴜ ᴇ ᴀ => /y o œ ɑ/

And another branch as uvularisation or something:
*ᴛ ᴋ ɴ ɢ => /t͡χ q ᶰɢ͡ʀ ʁ/, *ɪ ᴜ ᴇ ᴀ => /ɪʶ ʊʶ æʶ ɑʶ/

Most likely this was originally word-level pharyngealisation, which is acoustically similar to rounding, retroflexion and backing. Here's some examples of sound changes having occurred:
Spoiler:
*uɢɢᴀnk > /ˈvokʰɐː/ oġònk
*ɢᴜgguᴛ > /kʰoˈkʰut͡s/ ġùġuṭ
*ᴇit > /jæˈjet/ æit
*eɪt > /ˈjɛjet/ eìt
*otɪtn > /ˈvɔt’edɐŋ/ otìgtan
*ᴛitnokg > /ˈt͡siɾnɔd͡ʑɐː/ ṭirnojag
*ᴀᴛitgti > /vɐˈsidɐŋɐʀ/ azidagar
*ᴀgtiᴋᴋ > /vɐŋɐˈɾit͡ɕe/ agariḳì
*tiɴɴᴇ > /ˈtitʰɐnæ/ tiṇanæ
The idea is that all the modern languages have very normal phonologies in contrast to their proto-lang's extreme whackyness, e.g. the one above has:

/t tʰ d t͡s t͡ɕ d͡ʑ k kʰ ʔ/
/v s ɕ/
/n ɲ ŋ/
/ɾ j ʀ/

/i iː u uː e eː o oː ɛ ɛː ɔ ɔː æ æː ɐ ɐː/

I think this is going to be the major family for the east coast of Kozaṇtudit (< *koᴛɴtutit), the habitable part of Kokhene's southern polar continent. And as a bonus for getting this far, here's inventories of two langs spoken on Ąkuyook, an island off the northern coast of Kozaṇtudit:
Spoiler:
Ǫneebǫwhítw:
/b t ʤ k/ <b t c k>
/s/ <s>
/m n j w/ <m n y w>

/i̝ i ɛ a/ <í i e a>
/ĩ ɛ̃ ɔ̃ ã/ <į ę ǫ ą>
+ length

Icááwənun:
/t ʦ k/
/θ s x/
/n j w/

/ə a aː/
(Other vowels arise allophonically from resonants)

Proto-Ąkuyookic:
*t *ʒ *k
*θ *s *x
*n *y *w


*i *e *a
*i꞉ *e꞉ *a꞉
(Might add *o꞉ if I'm feeling cheeky)
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

VaptuantaDoi’s überminimalist protolangs gave me this idea:

*n *g *h *r *w *e *i *u

Would be fun.
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

DesEsseintes wrote: 24 Feb 2023 14:30 VaptuantaDoi’s überminimalist protolangs gave me this idea:

*n *g *h *r *w *e *i *u

Would be fun.
I am, quite drun right now, but, t5ZI think that inventory is lovely. Five consonants though? That's a bit too much.

You can call me Doi though, i think VaptuantaDoi is a bit long aye
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

VaptuantaDoi wrote: 24 Feb 2023 14:58 Five consonants though? That's a bit too much.
It was a moment of weakness.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco »

I have an idea to make a conlang that has twofold vowel harmony. It combines a front-back contrast with ATR harmony.

For example, /ø y/ are +ATR while /œ ʏ/ are -ATR
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

How about a lang with a *pervasive* apical-laminal contrast?

Code: Select all

         Peripheral    Dental     Alveolar    Palatal 
          api  lam    api  lam    api  lam    api  lam 
Stop      /b/  /k/    /d̪͆/  /t̻/    /d̺/  /t̠/    /ɖ/  /c/ 
Nasal     /m/  /ŋ/    /n̪͆/  /n̻/    /n̺/  /n̠/    /ɳ/  /ɲ/ 
Lateral        /ʟ/    /l̪͆/  /l̻/    /l̺/  /l̠/    /ɭ/  /ʎ/ 
Liquid    /ʙ̆/  /ɰ/    /ɾ̪͆/  /ɹ̻/    /ɾ̺/  /ɹ̠/    /ɽ/  /j/ 
Or in a more traditional format:

/b d̪͆ t̻ d̺ t̠ ɖ c k/ <b dd th d ty rd tj k>
/m n̪͆ n̻ n̺ n̠ ɳ ɲ ŋ/ <m dn nh n ny rn nj ng>
/l̪͆ l̻ l̺ l̠ ɭ ʎ ʟ/ <dl lh l ly rl lj lg>
/ʙ̆ ɾ̪͆ ɹ̻ ɾ̺ ɹ̠ ɽ j ɰ/ <w dr rh r ry rr rj rg>

Note how the apical : laminal contrast is reinforced by voicing in the stops and tap vs. approximant in the liquids. I'm not sure how this contrast would affect vowel qualities...
This paper suggests that laminal consonants have a higher F2 and lower F1, while apicals have lower F3 and F4. I don't undertand phonetics very well but this suggests to me that laminals are associated with [+high][+front] and apicals with [+unrounded] and I have no idea what lower F4 implies so Imma ignore it. This makes me want to have a lovely horizontal vowel system with

/e o/ → [y u] near laminals
/e o/ → [æ ɑ] near apicals
/e o/ → [i ɤ] near both

Which kinda relies on a reinterpretation of [–unrounded] as [+rounded].

/et̪͆eʎe/ → [æt̪͆iʎy]
/oɳoɰo/ → [ɑɳɤɰu]

How hideous! I will never work on this again.
Knox Adjacent
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Knox Adjacent »

I'm unconvinced the extra laminal-apical distinctions could be anything but voicing.
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

Knox Adjacent wrote: 27 Feb 2023 20:58 I'm unconvinced the extra laminal-apical distinctions could be anything but voicing.
Just be glad I didn't put an apical uvular in there.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

LinguoFranco wrote: 26 Feb 2023 06:04 I have an idea to make a conlang that has twofold vowel harmony. It combines a front-back contrast with ATR harmony.

For example, /ø y/ are +ATR while /œ ʏ/ are -ATR
Does that make four values, or just three? I’d think maybe all +ATR vowels would be Back, or something.
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Man in Space
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Man in Space »

Proto-Lakes (not to be confused with Proto-Great Lakes, from Akana)

/m n nʲ/
/p pʰ b t tʰ d tʲ tʲʰ dʲ k kʰ g q qʰ ɢ/
/f s/
/ɹ j w/

/a ə Ø/

(C)(g/r/j/w)V (though *g here often assimilates in voicing and aspiration to a preceding stop)

*wØ, *jØ > *u, *i
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Omzinesý
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote: 09 Feb 2023 18:31 I'm now fascinated by Ket.

t k
b d
m n ŋ
l
s j ʁ

No idea of phonotactics but k combines with j and ʁ and form affricates [cç] and [qχ].

Probably a simple pich accent that can appear on a vowel segment. It could be accompanied by a phonemic creaky voice in some contexts, probably before voiced consonants.


Maybe with length distinction
i ɨ u
e o
ä
Edited version

t k
b d
s
m n
l
j ʁ

i u
e o
ɛ ɔ
ä

- a simple ATR harmony: if the root is +ATR, ɛ ɔ don't appear; if the root is -ATR e o don't appear and i u have -ATR allophones
- four tones: high, low, rising, lowering (rising and lowering cannot appear before voiceless consonants)
- three phonations: creaky, modal, breathy (some combinations of tones and phonations don't appear)
- all stops become a glottal stop word-finally
- /s/ is often [h] word-finally

Maximal syllable structure: sCCVC

Allowed (s)CC clusters are
First: t k b d
Second: m n l j ʁ

- /j/ and /ʁ/ are devoiced after /t/ and /k/
- /kʁ/ and /kj/ are pronounced [qχ] and [cç], respectively
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Nortaneous »

once again revising Hathic

Western Rau:
/p b t̪ d̪ t d k g q ʁ ʔ/
/s̺ x ꭓ/
/m n ŋ/

/a e ɤ o i ɯ u/
/˥ ˩ ˩˥/

Eastern Rau:
/p pʲ t tʲ kʲ q/
/β βʲ ð ðʲ j ʁ/
/θ θʲ ɬ ɬʲ s sʲ xʲ ꭓ/
/m mʲ n nʲ ŋʲ ŋ/

/a e ʌ o i ɯ/
/˥ ˩ ˩˥/

Old Rau:
/p b t d ts dz tɬ dɮ k g q ʁ/
/s̺ ɬ x/
/m n ŋ/

/a ɑ eæ oɒ e o i ɯ/
/˥ ˩ ˩˥/

Ngabtou:
/p b t d tɕ dʑ k g q/
/s ɕ x ꭓ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/w ɾ ɣ/

/æ a e o i ɨ u/
/˥ʰ ˥ˀ ˧ ˩ˀ˩/

Proto-Rau-Ngabtou:
/pʲ bʲ ɓʲ p b ɓ t d ɗ tɬ dɮ c ɟ ʄ k g ʔ/
/s ɬ x/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/l r j/

/a ɑ ɛ ɔ e o i ɨ u/

Old Gejaehl:
/pʰ p ɓ tʰ t ɗ cʰ c ʄ kʰ k ɠ/
/ɸ s ç x h/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/β ɹ j ɣ/
/l ʎ/

/a e ɤ o i ɯ u/
/aʳ eʳ oʳ iʳ ɯʳ uʳ/

Proto-Central Hathic:
/pʲʰ pʲ bʲ ɓʲ pʷʰ pʷ bʷ ɓʷ tʰ t d ɗ cʰ c ɟ ʄ kʰ k g/
/ɸʲ ɸʷ s ɬ ɕ x h/
/mʲ mʷ n ɲ ŋ/
/w ɹ j ɣ/
/l ʎ/

/a ɛ ʌ ɔ e o i ɯ u/
/aː ɛː ʌː ɔː eː oː iː ɯː uː/
/aʳ eʳ ʌʳ oʳ iʳ uʳ/
/aʳː eʳː ʌʳː oʳː iʳː uʳː/
/aˁː ɛˁː ʌˁː oˁː iˁː uˁː/

Hathe:
/t c k ʔ/
/β ð j/
/r/
/m n/

/a ɛ ɔ e ə ɵ o i ɨ ʉ u/
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

Thinking about this family for somewhere on Kokhene

Protolang:

Code: Select all

 ɸ   t~ɾ    s   k
ᵐb   ⁿd    ⁿdʒ  ʔ
 w         j
 
 i ĩ   ʉ ʉ̃   u ũ
 e ẽ   ɵ ɵ̃
 ɛ ɛ̃         ɔ ɔ̃
       a ã
  • /ᵐb ⁿd ⁿdʒ ʔ/ > [m n ɲ ŋ] /_V[+nasal], _$
  • /t/ > [ɾ] /(C,V)_
Like lots of Papuan languages *ɸ t~ɾ s k pattern as a voiceless series corresponding to "voiced" *ᵐb ⁿd ⁿʤ ʔ.

Syllable structure (C)V(C), where the coda can only be one of *ᵐb ⁿd ⁿdʒ ʔ in which position they are nasalised. Diphthongs *ai̯ au̯ ɛi̯ ɛu̯ ɔi̯ ɔu̯ ei̯ eu̯ with nasalised variants other than **ẽũ̯.


Some descendants:
Spoiler:
Bäjig:
/b t ʤ ʔ/
/f s x/
/m n ŋ/
/w l j/

/i ɨ u e ə o æ a/



Vüöres:
/p t/
/β s z ɣ/
/ɾ j w/
/m n/

/i ʉ u e ɵ o i͡ɛ ʉ͡ɞ u͡ɔ a/



Rë Tõ'a:
/b tʰ d ɟ kʰ ʔ/
/ɸ s h/
/w ɾ j/

/i y e ø o ʌ æ a/
/ɪ̃ ɵ̝̃ æ̃ ʌ̃/



Fäsano:
/ᵐb t ⁿd k ᵑɡ/
/ɸ s/
/w ɾ ɹ l j/

/i u e ə o æ ɑ/

/ĩ ũ ɑ̃/



Brujanaöɂ:
/b d ʤ k/
/ɸ s ɣ/
/ɾ j/
/ŋ/

/i ʉ u e ɵ o ɛ ɞ ɑ/
/ĩ ʉ̃ ũ ẽ ɵ̃ õ ɛ̃ ɞ̃ ɑ̃/
/ḭ ʉ̰ ṵ ḛ ɵ̰ o̰ ɛ̰ ɞ̰ ɑ̰/
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Omzinesý
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

I may have well sent this exactly same phonology before.

ɪ u
e o
ä

i(:)
ei oi eu ou
ai au

p t t͡s k
m n ŋ
s x
v z j ɣ
l ɾ

A Spanish-style phonemic stress.

This lang could have the obstruent + resonant clusters.

The maximal syllable structure is C1C2VC3.

C1: {p t t͡s k s x z (ɣ?) v)
C2: {m n ŋ l v}
C3: {m n ŋ s x l (ɣ?)}

- v+v clusters are of course forbidden though v appears in both groups.
- ɣ is usually silent in coda. I'm not sure about its status in onset clusters.

l has r as an allophone, especially word-finally.

Syllables with diphthongs or i(:) have some, at least statistical, limitations for codas in non-final syllables.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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