Are you happy to see me?

A forum for translations, translation challenges etc. Good place to increase your conlang's vocabulary.
User avatar
eldin raigmore
korean
korean
Posts: 6352
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Are you happy to see me?

Post by eldin raigmore »

lsd wrote: 25 May 2023 09:42
prettydragoon wrote: 23 May 2023 21:26 the males of the species are non-sapient so are tacitly ignored
um, imagine the opposite: "the women are non-sapient so are tacitly ignored by men"
not even the most delirious masculinists would envisage such a world...
A variation could be that the species is protogynous. The females are all immature compared to the males or hermaphrodites. Maybe they aren’t old enough to vote until they turn male or hermaphrodite?

Or, the species is protandrous. The males are all immature compared to the females or hermaphrodites, and aren’t considered old enough to vote until they turn female or hermaphrodite.

I’ve read a story Pretty Dragoon wrote from the POV of a male, and I wouldn’t call them non-sentient; but they are clearly significantly less intelligent than the females.

….

And P.S. what GoshDiggityDangit said, with less of the “chiding” subtext.
User avatar
prettydragoon
sinic
sinic
Posts: 442
Joined: 29 Jan 2012 10:22
Location: Third star on the left, straight on till tiffin
Contact:

Re: Are you happy to see me?

Post by prettydragoon »

lsd wrote: 25 May 2023 09:42
prettydragoon wrote: 23 May 2023 21:26 the males of the species are non-sapient so are tacitly ignored
um, imagine the opposite: "the women are non-sapient so are tacitly ignored by men"
not even the most delirious masculinists would envisage such a world...
No need to imagine. Consider the Kzinti.
Image
♀♥♀
What is this, how you say, Rireinutire?
User avatar
lsd
greek
greek
Posts: 740
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 21:11
Contact:

Re: Are you happy to see me?

Post by lsd »

only stupid men can think that women are under-gifted...
and only under-gifted women that they are dominated by these men...
User avatar
eldin raigmore
korean
korean
Posts: 6352
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Are you happy to see me?

Post by eldin raigmore »

lsd wrote: 25 May 2023 22:00 only stupid men can think that women are under-gifted...
and only under-gifted women that they are dominated by these men...
prettydragoon wrote: 25 May 2023 21:15 No need to imagine. Consider the Kzinti.
I don’t think anyone who has met or corresponded with Larry Niven would think he thinks women are under-gifted!
And neither his Man-Kzin Wars stories, nor the Star Trek episodes in which the Kzin appear, have in them any evidence for thinking he’s stupid or masculinist!

In the invertebrate phyla, (and also the cold-blooded and/or aquatic or marine classes of vertebrates), there are many examples of species with such extreme sexual dimorphism, a person first encountering them would not expect the males and females (or males and hermaphrodites, or females and hermaphrodites) to be members of the same species.
In fact, in some of them, the male is so much smaller it can live inside the body of the female, and it’s also a radically different shape. In others, the females are so much smaller they can live inside the male, and, again, are a radically different shape.

Prettydragoon has just built a world in which the sentient species has a drastic sexual dimorphism of intelligence.
They aren’t human, nor are they intended to be; they’re really not intended to be much like humans in respect to sex and reproduction! (As I understand it! @Prettydragoon, please correct me if I’m wrong!)
And, they’re fictional. Can you suspend disbelief while reading of them?

Humans appear to have some subtle sexual dimorphisms of brains and of mental processes. I think this is still being debated. I also think that men and women both have a spectrum of behavior; and while the central tendency of each sex is different from that of the other sex —(maybe to a significant degree, or maybe not)— their spectrums overlap quite a bit.

….

But I don’t see any reason the intelligent species native to some other planet, couldn’t have such sexual dimorphism.
Indeed, the sexes of Earth’s birds (such as peafowl or cardinals) typically are colored very differently. So there’s no reason to just expect that, if we meet another intelligent species, they won’t be radically sexually dimorphic.

….

Most males will undergo great risks for a chance to mate with a female.
Most females are much more safety-minded when seeking a mate.
So there’s a fairly significant sexual dimorphism of behaviors, in humans.
User avatar
lsd
greek
greek
Posts: 740
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 21:11
Contact:

Re: Are you happy to see me?

Post by lsd »

I don't think that any story told by men is made
for anything other than so that men can see themselves in it as if in a mirror...
(no extraterrestrial in an sf story in particular can stray beyond our possibilities of identification,
otherwise the story will be of no interest...)

I wouldn't call anyone sexist here, as some people do elsewhere in a peremptory way,
I was just pointing out the nagging refrain we hear all too often in the false war of sexes cleverly cultivated these days...

As for the rest, I'll take your word for it...
User avatar
prettydragoon
sinic
sinic
Posts: 442
Joined: 29 Jan 2012 10:22
Location: Third star on the left, straight on till tiffin
Contact:

Re: Are you happy to see me?

Post by prettydragoon »

eldin raigmore wrote: 28 May 2023 07:10
lsd wrote: 25 May 2023 22:00 only stupid men can think that women are under-gifted...
and only under-gifted women that they are dominated by these men...
prettydragoon wrote: 25 May 2023 21:15 No need to imagine. Consider the Kzinti.
I don’t think anyone who has met or corresponded with Larry Niven would think he thinks women are under-gifted!
And neither his Man-Kzin Wars stories, nor the Star Trek episodes in which the Kzin appear, have in them any evidence for thinking he’s stupid or masculinist!
Truth. I was referring specifically to the ways of the Kzinti in-universe. Not complaining of Niven's treatment of my fellow fictional Manrretti.
eldin raigmore wrote: Prettydragoon has just built a world in which the sentient species has a drastic sexual dimorphism of intelligence.
They aren’t human, nor are they intended to be; they’re really not intended to be much like humans in respect to sex and reproduction! (As I understand it! @Prettydragoon, please correct me if I’m wrong!)
Yes, the Rireinukave are in many ways very different from Humans, even if they look superficially rather similar. It might be pretentious to claim that I am capering on the brink of the Uncanny Valley with my precious Rireinukave (not unlike Gollum in Orodruin) but that is not all that far from what I am trying to achieve.
Image
♀♥♀
What is this, how you say, Rireinutire?
User avatar
lsd
greek
greek
Posts: 740
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 21:11
Contact:

Re: Are you happy to see me?

Post by lsd »

unkanny valley is the English name for one the two regions
visited by sf and fantasy authors when they travel to other worlds...
(the other is escapism...)
Post Reply