Conlang documentation

Arayaz · Post by **Arayaz** » 18 May 2023 19:59

I've seen a wide range of ways that people ─ including myself ─ have documented their languages. Biblaridion uses a spreadsheet; David J. Peterson has his template document. I myself have used paper before, on a long airplane ride (the birthplace of Rênnê, and its soon-to-be-worked-out relative).

But most of my languages use a (Google) document and a (Google) spreadsheet, and I have templates for both. I use the spreadsheet for the lexicon and affixes, and the document for syntax, semantics, derivation etc. I also have a separate template for sound and grammar changes. (If anybody is interested, I can provide links to the templates.)

But I don't know any conlangers in real life (we seem to be a rare breed), so I haven't really been exposed to any other styles. So how do you all document your languages? Do you etch them into stone walls? Transport your data mentally through hyperspace? If any of you have ideas I like, I might incorporate them into my document ─ this is already version 1.8. This is a place where we all differ, and thus an opportunity to learn.

WeepingElf · Post by **WeepingElf** » 18 May 2023 22:20

My conlangs live in hand-coded HTML files.

Arayaz · Post by **Arayaz** » 19 May 2023 02:10

WeepingElf wrote: ↑18 May 2023 22:20 My conlangs live in hand-coded HTML files.

Now that's impressive.

Nel Fie · Post by **Nel Fie** » 21 May 2023 13:56

My projects are all still sketches, but for what it's worth:

A big chunk of the early documentation, and all the sketching/working out happens on paper, with a pencil. Half of this is because I'll take any excuse to spend less time staring at a screen, the other half is that I enjoy the freedom of working like this and having the option of structuring things as I want, with mind-maps and doodles, and also of laying out any pages next to each other for comparison. But there's enough material here that I have several folders next to me.

For "final documentation" I'd probably create .odt files in LibreOffice because it's easier to modify/fix and get clean results - which can also be exported to .pdf and shared or printed. Also there's the general advantage for things like lexicons that it's easier to parse and search. That said, I'll probably still print them out because I like having a hard copy.

Currently though I'm also working on a piece of software to help me handle diachronics - which can display them in a GUI, but also stores all the relevant data as a JSON file, so I guess that's also a form of documentation, at least if the projects bear fruits.

Reyzadren · Post by **Reyzadren** » 21 May 2023 23:46

Almost all my conlang books are made with OpenOffice. However, this is a recent development. Prior to joining CBB, I just kept it all in my head whereas some notes were written on paper; many of which are still scattered in my room.

I only use spreadsheets when doing analyses such as phoneme frequency, most common words, Zipf's law etc, and this only happens once every few years.

Khemehekis · Post by **Khemehekis** » 22 May 2023 01:27

I keep WeepingElf-style HTML files with most of my conlang documentation, and my new Kankonian words go in a Quattro Pro X9 spreadsheet file.

Znex · Post by **Znex** » 22 May 2023 07:20

I keep everything in .txt files for some reason that I've forgotten.

Post by **Creyeditor** » 22 May 2023 09:53

I have rtf or txt files for sketches, and I try to produce presentable pdf grammars with latex. Somtimes I have tables in various other file formats.

Nel Fie · Post by **Nel Fie** » 22 May 2023 11:35

Reyzadren wrote: ↑21 May 2023 23:46 Almost all my conlang books are made with OpenOffice. However, this is a recent development. Prior to joining CBB, I just kept it all in my head whereas some notes were written on paper; many of which are still scattered in my room.

I only use spreadsheets when doing analyses such as phoneme frequency, most common words, Zipf's law etc, and this only happens once every few years.

Unless you're using the Apache version of OpenOffice, or you have some other good reason I'm no aware of: I would suggest moving to LibreOffice. OpenOffice is discontinued and had it's final release back in 2011 - meanwhile LibreOffice is intended as a successor and is actively being developed, maintained and supported (latest release was on the 11th of May 2023)

I don't know if there's backwards compatibility, but I would certainly recommend it for new projects and files.

WeepingElf · Post by **WeepingElf** » 22 May 2023 13:27

Znex wrote: ↑22 May 2023 07:20 I keep everything in .txt files for some reason that I've forgotten.

Relevant.

Sequor · Post by **Sequor** » 22 May 2023 22:32

Üdj wrote: ↑18 May 2023 19:59So how do you all document your languages? Do you etch them into stone walls? Transport your data mentally through hyperspace? If any of you have ideas I like, I might incorporate them into my document ─ this is already version 1.8. This is a place where we all differ, and thus an opportunity to learn.

For the grammar, I usually use a textfile, though a Word / LibreOffice Writer can look nicer with little effort.

For the dictionary, which IMO is a much more interesting question, I use a search-friendly formatted textfile — an idea I got from a(n Australian?) conlanger nicknamed Imralu. The concept is to use punctuation (markup) in a way that facilitates searching with Ctrl+F. See this other post for more.

Khemehekis · Post by **Khemehekis** » 22 May 2023 22:36

Sequor wrote: ↑22 May 2023 22:32 an idea I got from a(n Australian?) conlanger nicknamed Imralu.

You remembered right; Imralu says he is Australian here.

Nel Fie · Post by **Nel Fie** » 27 May 2023 09:57

(I'm not exactly sure if this is the best place, or if it's something that warrants a separate thread - since I'm not affiliated with the project, I don't think it's my place to open one, exactly.)

In the latest Conlangery episode, ("154 - David and Jessie talk Kopikon")the first release of a new piece of software designed for conlanging was announced, specifically for the creation and maintenance of lexica. It's called the LangTime Engine and you can find it here: https://langtimeengine.framer.website/

Note that it's a small-ish project developed by college students within the confine of their studies, and they are not themselves conlangers (or so my understanding). Part of the idea is also to provide the source code to the public via GitHub, in the hope that others might decide to further develop it.

lsd · Post by **lsd** » 27 May 2023 14:39

WeepingElf wrote: ↑22 May 2023 13:27
Znex wrote: ↑22 May 2023 07:20 I keep everything in .txt files for some reason that I've forgotten.
Relevant.

the less technology we use,
the better off we are...

here the link condemns,
as I often do,
bilingual lists,
which neglect what makes a language what it is,
the unique semantic fields...

if we're going to do that,
we might as well limit ourselves to the only really useful document of a language,
the one that is memorised by its speakers...

so I don't keep anything,
everything is memorised,
I only have a document in my wallet,
in credit card format,
which gives the equivalences 1sign = 1sound...

everything else,
including digital tools,
is dispensable
(font, idiogram-latin converter, ime, etc.)

Khemehekis · Post by **Khemehekis** » 27 May 2023 14:57

The spreadsheet format forces you into a very limited structure for each word. That structure can never hope to cope reliably with all the different words of a single language, much less the variety of things conlangers come up with (to say nothing of natlang variety). A spreadsheet is a too rigid format to grow the meaning and uses of a word over the lifetime of your conlang.

Oh, really?

What would Lingweenie say about this snippet from my English-Kankonian spreadsheet dictionary?

Spoiler:

lsd · Post by **lsd** » 27 May 2023 15:38

the number of entries does not limit the risk of relex...
this type of list encourages you to match
an entry in one language with an entry in a conlang,
and therefore to build a conlang based on your usual language...
monolingual dictionaries are better...

Sequor · Post by **Sequor** » 28 May 2023 23:53

lsd wrote: ↑27 May 2023 14:39here the link condemns,
as I often do,
bilingual lists,
which neglect what makes a language what it is,
the unique semantic fields...

lsd wrote: ↑27 May 2023 15:38 the number of entries does not limit the risk of relex...
this type of list encourages you to match
an entry in one language with an entry in a conlang,
and therefore to build a conlang based on your usual language...
monolingual dictionaries are better...

True. Although I would like to note that using simple equivalents is what almost every conlang dictionary I've seen does (with one notable exception), because to do otherwise is a lot of work. You don't need to make a monolingual dictionary to avoid this though, as it is enough to write senses each with an extended description in English, the way you would do it if it was a monolingual one. Say, something like:

akran
vt.
1. to take something by grabbing it with one's hand(s)
2. to take something using a container or tool
3. to become in charge of something, take responsibility about it
4. to conquer a human settlement, such as a city
...

lsd · Post by **lsd** » 29 May 2023 00:30

I can't see any other solution than building from the conlang without translating to separate the semantic fields...
it's difficult to produce text when you're starting from scratch rather than translating when you have a plethora of natural language texts...
it's difficult to find an internal logic in the construction of the language without copying a natural language...
it's certainly the hardest when there's no speaker...

sevenorbs · Post by **sevenorbs** » 17 Jul 2023 04:17

Anyone else use the triad of sketch-work docs-db? My workflow (not limited to the act of conlanging, but also in any creative work I do) consists of three phases.

Ideas are fleeting, I don't trust my head, so I keep my friend the poor blue looseleaf binder book and always fill every travel bag and backpacks I own with some piece of blank papers and a pen. In the past I often use any paper I could get (one of my first conlanging sketches happened to be written on a used paper I found in class!).

The collection of ideas is then go through a "proper" research (usually when my mood is finally amicable), annotated and rewritten into a small informal write up. I have my personal latex template for this kind of work and the pdf is used for archival purposes.

The final part, when I'm (finally, but rarely) satisfied with the research, I put the write up and all of the references into my offline knowledge base folder, written in markdown to be read and mapped with Obsidian.

I know this is by no means perfect, but it helps me to keep busy.

appakling · Post by **appakling** » 29 Sep 2023 20:07

David J. Peterson has his template document

never heard of that- where can a view it? (if possible)

The CBB

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