How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

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How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

Post by Informer »

I had asked about this in the end of my last post but I think this can qualify for a whole post since I haven't been able to find anything on this since usually the entire point of diachronics IS being natural. If you didn't see that one, the gist of it is that I have this group of bored gods who are the primary speakers (only other speakers are primarily the wizards who use it for magic or super scholarly people who treat it extremely prescriptively) and it was mentioned that Tolkien had an elven language that was intentionally shaped by the elves due to their long lifespans and that it could apply to my bored gods which I thought was really cool; only problem is I have no idea how to do naturalistic diachronics, let alone unnatural diachronics.
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

Post by Khemehekis »

One idea would be to have phonemes evolve into something totally dissimilar in only one or two steps. Like have all the /l/'s in your motherlang become /s/'s or /p/'s in your daughterlang. (An ANADEW with Albanian and Armenian?)
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

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Sorry I saw this and then forgot to answer, that seems like it could work. What's an ANADEW by the way?
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

Post by Arayaz »

Informer wrote: 21 Feb 2024 18:25 Sorry I saw this and then forgot to answer, that seems like it could work. What's an ANADEW by the way?
"A Natlang Already Did it, Except Worse."

I have an easter egg for this in Ruykkarraber: anadeu means "weird."
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

Post by Khemehekis »

Arayaz wrote: 21 Feb 2024 18:38 have an easter egg for this in Ruykkarraber: anadeu means "weird."
[xD] That's great!
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

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Arayaz wrote: 21 Feb 2024 18:38
Informer wrote: 21 Feb 2024 18:25 Sorry I saw this and then forgot to answer, that seems like it could work. What's an ANADEW by the way?
"A Natlang Already Did it, Except Worse."

I have an easter egg for this in Ruykkarraber: anadeu means "weird."
Ohhh, that makes sense. I'd probably have to research those two languages a little bit before I try to base anything off them though since I currently know nothing about either of them.

edit: Also, that easter eggs pretty clever
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

Post by Arayaz »

Informer wrote: 21 Feb 2024 21:30
Arayaz wrote: 21 Feb 2024 18:38
Informer wrote: 21 Feb 2024 18:25 Sorry I saw this and then forgot to answer, that seems like it could work. What's an ANADEW by the way?
"A Natlang Already Did it, Except Worse."

I have an easter egg for this in Ruykkarraber: anadeu means "weird."
Ohhh, that makes sense. I'd probably have to research those two languages a little bit before I try to base anything off them though since I currently know nothing about either of them.
Well, part of the point is that it's very difficult to justify. I've had weird things happen on the surface in my languages ─ like Proto-Ohesian /s/ often ended up as /ɬ/ in *future Orayoxe, depending on the context ─ but it's always justified.

(In this case it s→θ→ɬ→ʃ. Each individual shift is attested. I hate s→θ but I wasn't the one who did it.)
Informer wrote: 21 Feb 2024 21:30 edit: Also, that easter eggs pretty clever
Khemehekis wrote: 21 Feb 2024 21:20
Arayaz wrote: 21 Feb 2024 18:38 have an easter egg for this in Ruykkarraber: anadeu means "weird."
[xD] That's great!
thanks! i'll probably post it in the easter eggs thread soon.
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

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Now that I'm thinking about this more I might try something like that with some voiceless stops since I've already decided I don't want to have too many of those (I've heard somewhere that could help a language flow better and I want it to sound very flowy for lack of a better word ) so maybe instead of just switching them to a voiced alternative I could have something like /k/ --> /l/ (random example, I don't think this exact one will make it in)
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

Post by Arayaz »

Informer wrote: 21 Feb 2024 21:58 Now that I'm thinking about this more I might try something like that with some voiceless stops since I've already decided I don't want to have too many of those (I've heard somewhere that could help a language flow better and I want it to sound very flowy for lack of a better word ) so maybe instead of just switching them to a voiced alternative I could have something like /k/ --> /l/ (random example, I don't think this exact one will make it in)
If you want to be on the edge of naturalism, I'd posit /p t k/ → /w ɾ j/. This would be totally naturalistic between vowels, though I'm not sure of any attestations at word boundaries.
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Re: How can I do intentionally non-naturalistic diachronics?

Post by Informer »

Arayaz wrote: 21 Feb 2024 22:11
Informer wrote: 21 Feb 2024 21:58 Now that I'm thinking about this more I might try something like that with some voiceless stops since I've already decided I don't want to have too many of those (I've heard somewhere that could help a language flow better and I want it to sound very flowy for lack of a better word ) so maybe instead of just switching them to a voiced alternative I could have something like /k/ --> /l/ (random example, I don't think this exact one will make it in)
If you want to be on the edge of naturalism, I'd posit /p t k/ → /w ɾ j/. This would be totally naturalistic between vowels, though I'm not sure of any attestations at word boundaries.
Those seem like they'd work for what I'm going for since at least they're in the same spots, and I'll just say the gods decided they might as well just change them all for the rest of the attestations. Thanks for the idea!
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