Surprising cognates

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k1234567890y
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by k1234567890y »

Shemtov wrote: 14 Dec 2022 04:33
k1234567890y wrote: 08 Nov 2022 20:17 borrowed from Turkic, which is in turned borrowed from Chinese.
In the opposite Direction: :vie: thiên /tʰiən/"Heaven [used only in compounds]" :mon: тэнгэр /tʰeŋ.ɡer/ "Sky; Heaven; Weather"
PrTurkic *teŋri "Heaven; Tengri
>(borrowed via Xiongnu) Old :zho: 撐犁 *ṭhāŋ-rə̄>Late Old :zho: 天 *tʰi:n "Heaven"> Middle :zho: 天 *tʰen> (Borrowed) :vie: thiên
>(Borrowed) PrMongolic *teŋgeri>Middle/Classical :mon: /tenggeri/> :mon: тэнгэр
nice, though to my knowledge the Turkic theory for Chinese is disputed, because there‘s a theory that Old Chinese 天 started with a voiceless lateral consonant instead of a plosive.

sorry for late reply, also, there‘s a theory that the Turkic word *teŋri ultimately originates as a loanword from Proto-Yeniseian *tɨŋgɨr- "high"
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Arayaz »

English horse and English corridor

Horse < Old English hors "horse" < Proto-Germanic *hrussą "horse" < Proto-Indo-European *ḱr̥sós "vehicle" < Proto-Indo-European *ḱers- "to run"

Corridor < French corridor "corridor" < Italian corridore "long passage" < Italian correre "to run" < Latin currere "to run" < Proto-Italic *korzō "to run" < Proto-Indo-European *ḱers- "to run"

I read in The Conlanger's Lexipedia (by Mark Rosenfelder) that "horse" came from a word meaning "to run," and thought, "huh, with Grimm's Law that looks kinda like corre in Portuguese" ... checked Wiktionary and boom! cognates. Changed the second one to corridor to make it more interesting.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Khemehekis »

A horse is a horse, of course of course,
And no one can talk to a talking PIE speaker,
That is, of course,
Unless one resorts
To Mr. Comparative Method!
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Arayaz »

Dothraki erin "to be kind"
Norwegian ire "Irishman"
English penguin (likely, not certain)
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by WeepingElf »

How is penguin cognate to the others? (BTW, for those who don't know yet: Dothraki erin 'to be kind' is an Easter egg - Erin is David J. Peterson's wife.)
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Arayaz »

WeepingElf wrote: 19 Sep 2023 17:15 How is penguin cognate to the others? (BTW, for those who don't know yet: Dothraki erin 'to be kind' is an Easter egg - Erin is David J. Peterson's wife.)
Erin is from Irish Éirinn, which is a dialectial variation of Éire "Ireland," whence ire. Éire is thought to be from Proto-Celtic *Φīweryū (also meaning "Ireland"), ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *piHwer- < PIE *peyH-, whence Latin pinguis "fat, greasy," which is thought to be the ancestor of penguin (it could also be from Welsh pen + gwyn "white head").
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Salmoneus »

In case nobody's pointed this one out, though they probably have...

English: mail, 'hard armour' (or, by extension, hard external surface of animal, eg lobster)
French: maillot, 'bikini line'
Italian: maglia, 'stitch'
English: maquis, 'covert guerilla organisation'
Portuguese: mangra, 'mildew'
Spanish: mallas, 'leggings, tights'
English: macule, 'double impression from printing'
English: macular degeneration, 'disease of the retina resulting in loss of central vision'

etc.

[the latter two might not seem surprising cognates, but they're not related in the obvious way]
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by k1234567890y »

Üdj wrote: 19 Sep 2023 14:37 Dothraki erin "to be kind"
Norwegian ire "Irishman"
English penguin (likely, not certain)
This one is truly surprising! Ireland is now a land for penguins xdd
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Dormouse559 »

Salmoneus wrote: 25 Sep 2023 23:19 In case nobody's pointed this one out, though they probably have...
Don’t think anyone has. It’s fun to see them all laid out together!
French: maillot, 'bikini line'
Maillot is also a general garment word. It can refer to jerseys; with optional modifiers, it refers to swimsuits and undershirts.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Salmoneus »

For English speakers the word's best known in maillot jaune, the yellow jersey of the Tour de France. But 'bikini line' seemed a more fun meaning.


For those unaware, the general direction of shift is something like:

dirt > smudge > dark area > hole > hole in the middle of a link of a chain > link of a chain > anything made of links > anything woven > tights > other undergarments > bikini line

Most of the meanings in various languages lie along this line, while learned reborrowings restart the chain from 'dirt' or 'smudge', which is where the 'mildew' and 'typing blur' meanings come from. "Macular degeneration" is from dirt > smudge > spot > centre of the retina.

At some point the word also came to mean a type of terrain covered unevenly in bushes. I don't know if that's from 'smudge' (the smudgy appearance from a distance), 'dark area' (when you're in it) or maybe 'something made of links' or 'something woven' (from the way the brush is broken up by more open paths, maybe?). But it happened at least twice ('maquis' and 'macchia' both mean this), and from there to guerillas who operate in that terrain.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Arayaz »

Salmoneus wrote: 27 Sep 2023 00:07 dirt > smudge > dark area > hole > hole in the middle of a link of a chain > link of a chain > anything made of links > anything woven > tights > other undergarments > bikini line
This has more twists, turns, and unexpected surprises than a road that nobody properly maintains!
What a world it is, semantic drift.
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Re: Surprising cognates

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Just came across English 'orphan' (from Greek), English Robot (from Czech) and German 'Arbeit' meaning 'work', all going back to a PIE root meaning 'orphan', which also came to mean 'slave, servant' at some point.
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Arayaz »

:usa: English mild
:bra: Portuguese molho "sauce"

Not all sauces are.... mild..........
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Re: Surprising cognates

Post by Shemtov »

Arayaz wrote: 19 Sep 2023 14:37 Dothraki erin "to be kind"
Norwegian ire "Irishman"
English penguin (likely, not certain)
More words from PIE *peyh₂- "Fat; Milk"
Tamil பாயசம் /paːjɐt͡ɕɐm/, [paːjɐsɐm] and Telegu పాయసం /pa:yasam/ "Khir; Rice Pudding" Borrowed from a Sanskrit word meaning "Something stewed in milk"

North Sami buoidi /ˈpuo̯jːtiː/ "Fat", via Germanic

Lithuanian pienas "Milk"

Interlingually: Poaceae "Grasses (botany)"

Possibly :eng: Fun & Fond (due to sexist reasons)

Sanskrit पीनस Pīnasa "Rhinitis (Ayurvedic medicine)"- This has been loaned to Hindi and Marathi
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