Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

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Alessio
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by Alessio »

My conplanet Barrer, where all my conworlds are located, is roughly divided into two hemispheres, named the Front and the Back Hemisphere. Cultures differ a lot between the two, and as such they adopt different calendars; however, much like the Chinese or Islamic calendars, these are often replaced by the predominant system for internationalization purposes, especially in trade.
The predominant system is that of the Back Hemisphere, called the Sirah Calendar. Barrer is a planet (an actual, existing planet, if I didn't f***ing lose the file where I had written its name) in the habitable zone of Alpheratz, also called Sirah, Alpha Andromedae or the Navel of the Mare. The orbital period of Barrer around Alpheratz is about 578 Earth days, but the Barrer way to count time is quite different.
Since Barrer was colonialized by Earthlings, who flew off into space in 7 BCE and whose spaceship was mistakenly thought to be a comet, the calendar was created to be as similar as possible to that of Earth, adapting it to the Barrer year. In particular, the length of a Barrer second is identical to that of an Earth second, and both calendars start at the same point in time. It was indeed known that a Messiah would be born on Earth, as you can tell by... well, the whole comet thing.
Barrer minutes are made up of 100 seconds, and 50 minutes make an hour. This makes it so that a Barrer day lasts roughly 18 hours.
Barrer weeks are composed by 10 days, called Fengvïl, Adethir, Xalienta, Peltros, Hotelieqh, Jenëvi, Zagïd, Dïdhel, Ÿlieqhe and Merćadil in the Hecathver language (the lingua franca of Barrer, much like English on Earth). Earthling week days are never used in Hecathver; instead, Preltros, Hotelieqh and Ÿlieqhe are removed, and the remaining days are used to name the Earthling days, Monday through Sunday.
A Barrer year is thus composed of 555 days, divided in 11 months: the months with an odd number, starting from 1, have 50 days, whereas those with an even number have 55. These months are called Hetrent, Wirgustÿr, Vrecstÿr, Poithilet, Ħolstet, Shoflent, Sirah, Barrer, Therwent, Poithilnuun and Ħolstnuun in Hecathver.
However, the Barrer orbital period is actualy 555 days and 10 hours, which have to be covered by adding an extra day every two years, and two additional extra days every 18 years (so 3 days in total on such an occasion, since the leap years line up to multiples of 2). These days are added to the sixth (central) month, Shoflent.
It has to be said that Barrer has no moon, so months are only used for convenience. Indeed, the Hecathver word for month, trent, has nothing to do with the Moon, but rather comes from the Latin word triginta (thirty), as Earthling months have, on average, thirty days.
Actually, most words in this semantic field come from the Latin word indicating their number, or the number of parts that make them, on Earth. The word for year, dodesh, is cognate with duodecim (twelve), as the Earth calendar had already 12 months when the Earthlings departed to Barrer. Hours are called vinkar from viginti quattuor (24), and minutes zigsan from sexaginta (60). Finally, the week is called setel from septem (7). Seconds, instead, are called halie, which is of Elvar (Barrer) origin.

I had made a simple C++ program to get the current time on Barrer (specifically in the central time zone of the Back hemisphere, i.e. the time in the state of Hecath). However, I have it on another computer. If I am not mistaken, the year should be about 1272 right now, but I might have to check the code. I had calculated by hand that about a year ago the Barrer year was 1268, and Barrer years pass slower than Earthling ones on a 3 : 2 rate, so there is something wrong there.
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Shemtov wrote: 04 Dec 2017 05:42 The idea of a 6-day week is a bad idea, because it is basically accidental religious discrimination, against my religion specifically. I am an Orthodox Jew. We do not work on Saturdays. Even if you change to a six-day week, Sabbath for us will shift into the work week. "Six days may you work and perform all your labor, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord, your God; you shall perform no labor....." -Ex. 20:9,10 So, basically, if we start your new calendar on a year where New Years does start on the current Sunday, the first week is fine. The second week will have no Sabbath, but the third week Sabbath will be on Monday, a workday, and then the fourth week will it will be on Tuesday, and then on Wednesday on the fifth week. We will become unable to have normal jobs. We went through this before- when the workweek in America was six days, including Saturdays. People tell horror stories about how they would basically starve because every week they had to find a new job, just for practicing their religion. I know we are a minority of a minority, but is that enough to justify religious discrimination?
I feel like if the aforementioned calendar were enacted, folks would just make accomodations and re-interpret the way in which the verse mentioned is followed. The simplest solution would just be to always take Saturday off and forget about the 1/7th thing. I mean, it's not like the Bible is followed to the letter in every other one of it's many rules and doctrines. Sometimes, the real world's changes need to be taken into account and instead of taking every seventh day off for the rest of forever and being an impossible person to have as an employee anywhere, one would likely make the easier change. (I mean, the change would actually mean you are taking slightly MORE time off... so I would imagine that would be better than working more days than the 1 in 7 system currently prescribes.)
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alynnidalar
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by alynnidalar »

Here's an article on the Sanmran calendar.

In short, it's a 365-day calendar consisting of 12 months of 31 or 30 days each (the first month has 30 days, the second has 31, and so on back and forth until the last month, which breaks the pattern by also having 30 days). The year begins in mid-April, by the Gregorian calendar. Historically, weeks were six days long, but Sanmrans have long since adopted the seven-day week common in many human cultures. Leap years occur every twelve years, rather than every four (which has no actual basis other than me wanting to be special. Sue me [;)]); all three leap days are stacked up at the end of the year and are basically a three-day-long party for the entire country.

For convenience, in the late 1800s the calendar was altered to be pegged directly to the Gregorian calendar. In particular, this means that the number of leap days that occur in a leap year are dependent on how many were "missed" from the Gregorian calendar during the twelve years between Sanmran leap years. (e.g. three Gregorian leap years occurred between April 12, 1872 and April 12, 1884, so three leap days were added to the Sanmran calendar. But only two Gregorian leap years occurred between April 12, 1896 and April 12, 1908 [because 1900 wasn't a Gregorian leap year], so only two leap days were added to the Sanmran calendar)

An interesting quirk is that Sanmran years are referred to in cycles of two years, so you need to be aware if the person you're talking to is referring to the cycle number of a year or the actual year number. For example, today's date is 1 Keiron 1203.2. In plain English, that's the first day of Keiron (the tenth month), in Year 2 of Cycle 1203, which is Year 2407.

I'm working on a little JavaScript converter between Gregorian and Sanmran dates, but I only have the year/cycle conversion part completed so far. I foresee a lot of writing manual date parsing code in my future...
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by Khemehekis »

The Kankonian calendar

A year on Kankonia lasts as long as 334.2135 days on Earth. The planet revolves around its sun 360.42820 times in a year. The calendar of Kankonia, introduced by Ekhula and invented by his astronomers, fits 360 days neatly into 12 months, 30 per month. There is a rough correspondence between the length of a month and the phases of Akalla (which completes a cycle every 27.5904 days), but Kankonians prefer to base their month mathematically on what makes a clean 12 x 30 division. Tziran is even rougher in relation to months, going through 17.53 phases a year.

A date is known simply as, say, 25-10-3859, or 25 in 10 in 3859. The months are identified as Drert Zash In (or Month that Is 1), Drert Zash Bam (or Month that Is 2) and so on, up to Drert Zash Zanbam.

The first, third and sixth years of each seven-year cycle (1, 3, 6, 8, 10, 13, 15, 17, 20, 22 . . .) have an extra day at the end of the year, so that 30-12 is followed by 31-12. Every 2,700 years starting from the year 1, Kankonians skip the date 31-12 on the year that is a multiple of 2,700 (like 5400 or 8100), and skip it on the next would-be leap year if the multiple of 2,700 is not a leap year (so there is no 31-12 in 2701, the next would-be leap year after 2700).

The calendar begins on the first day of spring in the southern hemisphere. The year 0 on the Kankonian calendar began on 1-1-0, at 9:07:45 p.m. on September 30, 7215 B.C. on Earth. Years before the calendar began are identified as -1, -2, -3 and so on, so 15-3 of 250 years before the Kankonian calendar begins would be 15-3--250.

One day consists of 16 lamas, one lami consists of 64 kinkiles, and one kinkil consists of 64 imas. An imis can be further divided into a thousand tithiimas, a million nishimas, a billion vilimas and a trillion berlidimas. 16:00 is midnight, and 8:00 noon. The 16 time zones are arranged so that midnight in Hetziel (Hegheos) is noon in Kapikaimi (Povoi) and vice versa.

Kankonians spend every kyuzidil, or day of the month divisible by five (5-1, 10-1, 15-1, 20-1, 25-1, 30-1, 5-2, and so on), off from most jobs and from studying, in addition to spending 31-12 off. The spas is generally understood as 5 consecutive days from a day after a day divisible by five to a day divisible by five, and occasionally to 6 consecutive days (from 26-12 to 31-12). Days 1, 6, 11, 16, 21 and 26 of a month are known as inpyesdekh (one-modulus); days 2, 7, 12, 17, 22 and 27 as bampyesdekh (two-modulus); days 3, 8, 13, 18, 23 and 28 as empyesdekh (three-modulus); and days 4, 9, 14, 19, 24 and 29 are holpyesdekh (four-modulus). Day names do not work the same as the seven days of the week on Earth calendars, however, as days 30 and 31 are both considered kyuzidil, and day 13, for instance, is always considered empyesdekh.

Kankonian holidays

1-1 is New Year's Day. This is celebrated by the planting of palm trees across Kankonia, especially species that will sprout soon in the spring. Teens (both boys and girls) climb palm trees and bring down coconuts to make coconut milk. This coconut milk is often made into a Povoian cake called a uesheuvi, featuring maize flour, custard and a caramel glaze. At Fasukum, a parade is held, and at 16:01 on 1-1, the Fasukum Vault is opened. This is a giant vault that is open for the new year, a blank page. Fireworks are thrown as the calendar turns over from 30-12 or 31-12 to 1-1.

13-3 is Beggars' Day. People prepare food for the beggars as the latter come to their houses. The beggars walk neighborhoods and say "Garaks shkapaks, mahan is ad seshui elas kabaks?" (Garaks shkapaks, may I scrabble for some food?) at each door. People do not usually give the beggars elaborate meals, but being stingy is frowned upon. A popular giveaway is the beggar's potato (*uyub na therlot), a bumpy red cultivar of potato. During the weekend of 10-3 (starting when work gets off at 9-3), grocery stores give away free uti sacks to the beggars to stuff all their goodies in.

On 14-4 Kankonians celebrate Space Awareness Day, with telescopes and interplanetary trips. Stores put up images of telescopes, spacecraft, rockets, planets, comets and asteroids. For many Kankonians, this is the one day a year they visit another planet. Trips to Schaza, Shaleya, Junsu and Shanu are popular, as to a lesser extent are zhoar (nonhuman sapient) planets like Javarti, Chatony, Mensinghi and Keitel. Schools have this day off, but take other days this week to teach about astronomy.

2-7 is Shelkan's Birthday. Kankonians read speeches by Shelkan, the khemehekis rebel leader. They also burn effigies of Emperor Phoriphio. Many Kankonians dress up like Shelkan (with felt hat, plaid shirt, shorts, sandals and Shelkan mask) or Kerina (with long hair, plaid shirt, vest, suspenders, khakis, sandals and Kerina mask).

12-7 is Kankonia Day, a celebration of the ecological conservation of Kankonia. Hundreds of Kankonians in each city go to a teach-in about the history of environmentalism and how ecologically unsanitary practices such as the use of CFC's came and went. Many wear green-and-blue-striped polos on this day, representing the verdure and water of the planet. Trees are planted and endangered animals "adopted". The BAK is always aggressive against loggers, but if they catch a logger cutting down a tree in a rain-forest on Kankonia Day, they will shoot on sight.

25-8 is Anarchy Day. As this is a kyuzidil, there is never school on Anarchy Day. Citizens celebrate the establishment of thelemarchy on Kankonia with feasts of squid, cod, pimplefish, scallops, peppers, poppy rolls, sasoks and wine. They also throw fireworks and smoke marijuana. Stores put trapezoid stickers in their windows. Many brave Kankonians will take trips to countries like Kebsabhaz and Danton and stick their tongues out at the natives. It is also a tradition on Anarchy Day for men to dress up as women (with breasts) and women to dress up as men (with facial hair).

8-9 is Tzalath Day, the date the Tzalath was completed. This is recognized by Hazumis, Rasaphis and Musefis alike. People buy new copies of their Tzalaths to replace those that have worn out. Most temples from the Tzalathic religions have readings of the most enduring parts of the Tzalath.

Finally, 31-12 is Long Day, the intercalary day on the end of leap years. This is celebrated by releasing 361 butterflies that have been raised in captivity from caterpillars into the wild in most major cities across the planet. People who live in suburbs drive down to the city the day before to watch the butterflies being released. Since this a popular time for hotels and tourists, hotels drop their prices and many businesses advertise at hotels. Various kinds of liqueur are also drunk on Long Day.

Moveable dates include Pheludzar, the date Hetenemphra came up with Musefism, and Lekh Daserim, the date Rasaphism was founded.

The Ciladian calendar

Ciladia's calendar was adapted from that of Amadia, with the months renamed. It fit 13 months into 360 days. The 13 months were:
  • 1 Syedun (28 days)
  • 2 Aphar (27 days)
  • 3 Kyeb (28 days)
  • 4 Narekar (28 days)
  • 5 Madun (27 days)
  • 6 Shebhat (28 days)
  • 7 Nugesh (29 days)
  • 8 Uphar (27 days)
  • 9 Phemun (28 days)
  • 10 Byabh (27 days)
  • 11 Adem (28 days)
  • 12 Dyukhalel (27 days)
  • 13 Bhetash (28 days)

On the second, fourth and sixth years of each seven-year cycle counting from the year 1, Adem would have a twenty-ninth day, called Phegim, or "Stop Day".

Years starting from 1 are called Iph Pemakh (I.P.), or "after the mission", while years before 1 I.P. are labeled Dan Pemakh (D.P.), or "before the mission". The calendar began with Syedun 1, 1 I.P., on 15-10--2551 by the Ekhulic calendar. The use of D.P. and I.P. is a holdover from the Amadian calendar, which started with the announcement of the mission to settle Amadia.

The Phesandran calendar

Phesandra's calendar was based on 13 months:
  • 1 Dzobhwa (28 days)
  • 2 Yanter (27 days)
  • 3 Phanfed (28 days)
  • 4 Khutra (27 days)
  • 5 Bhetra (28 days)
  • 6 Swiphar (28 days)
  • 7 Pahenta (27 days)
  • 8 Byufi (28 days)
  • 9 Phyopiri (27 days)
  • 10 Mitri (28 days)
  • 11 Syndri (27 days)
  • 12 Bhamba (28 days)
  • 13 Hykres (27 days)
Every 11 years starting with the year 11, an intercalary month of 27 days, Kehyd, was added after Hykres.

Years starting from 1 are called Rophi Hempa (R.H.), or "Year of Man". Years before 1 R.H. are called Sakha Enkhybi (S.E.), or "before the establishment", i.e. the establishment of the calendar. The calendar began with 1 Dzobhwa, 1 R.H., on 14-5--1244 by the Ekhulic calendar. It is known that the Phesandrans had already had their country for a few decades when its calendar was created in 1 R.H.

The Povoian calendar

The Ancient Povoians developed their own calendar. It was a lunar calendar, with the first day of each month being a full moon (Akalla). A standard year had 13 months of 27 or 28 days each:
  • 1 Doiga
  • 2 Nepi
  • 3 Ratausha
  • 4 Kati
  • 5 Fökois
  • 6 Götra
  • 7 Vuatauv
  • 8 Noishu
  • 9 Zeramai
  • 10 Repros
  • 11 Kavrait
  • 12 Mapua
  • 13 Aumöbo
Each of the 27 or 28 days of a month is named after an animal:
  • 1 Moiti
  • 2 Uabangu
  • 3 Bedro
  • 4 Pumesha
  • 5 Söga
  • 6 Aininga
  • 7 Tapi
  • 8 Oiki
  • 9 Vaikas
  • 10 Gemas
  • 11 Tengut
  • 12 Duani
  • 13 Shauvi
  • 14 Pauti
  • 15 Zöba
  • 16 Böpi
  • 17 Torpu
  • 18 Engut
  • 19 Pira
  • 20 Sotepaina
  • 21 Braimas
  • 22 Guadra
  • 23 Otisuami
  • 24 Avanassa
  • 25 Suiva
  • 26 Pashav
  • 27 Gabobru
  • 28 Tezri
Days were possessives of months, which in turn were possessives of years, so the ninth day of Mapua in the year 234 would be expressed as 234-si Mapuasi Vaikas.

Every 16 years starting in the year 16, an intercalary month, Pengua, is added between Kati and Fökois, and the year has 14 months. Each 16 years from 1 to 16, from 17 to 32, from 33 to 48, etc., form one cycle (raumu in Povoian).

Every 1,024 years starting in the year 1024, a second intercalary month, Maisso, is added between Zeramai and Repros, and the year has 15 months. Each 1,024 years form one possa (the Povoian word for eon).

The year 1, with Doigasi Moiti, was dated so that it began on 17-4--763 by Ekhula's calendar. The Povoian calendar was actually invented in the year 280 by Povoian standards, or -483 using Ekhula's calendar.

The Povoians believed in a form of astrology based on the day of a month in which a person was born. A person born on Pauti, the day of the tapir, for instance, was believed to have the characteristics of a tapir.
  • Moiti (elephant), friendly, pious, loves to eat
  • Uabangu (uabangu), big, scrappy, hot-tempered, conservative
  • Bedro (pig) eager, willing to try anything, a backstabber
  • Pumesha (duck), talkative, sociable, petty
  • Söga (monkey), clever, sneaky, knows just what to do
  • Aininga (beetle), in tune with the past, the present and the future, wise, morbid
  • Tapi (tapi), open-minded, loose, the best athletes
  • Oiki (mouse), neat, compulsive, worries about everything
  • Vaikas (parrot), highly intelligent, hubristic, the type most prone to commit suicide
  • Gemas (bee), industrious, polite, unfaithful in bed, as sweet as honey
  • Tengut (deer), soft, washy, emotional, wants to "talk about our feelings"
  • Duani (cobra), crafty, sleek, sexy
  • Shauvi (alpaca), a gentleman or lady, helpful, a cut above the rest, stubborn
  • Pauti (tapir) a team player, fair, impersonal
  • Zöba (rabbit), gentle, faithful, always suspicious of others
  • Böpi (ant), unindividualistic, submissive, plays by the rules
  • Torpu (dog), happy, rustic, eager to please, enjoys gross-out humor
  • Engut (crab), salty, a good survivor, not loyal to anything
  • Pira (frog), musically gifted, goes to his/her own groove, dirty (it does eat flies, after all)
  • Sotepaina (chicken, or wild jungle fowl), showy, fun-loving, the best people in business
  • Braimas (pomba), concupiscent, unconventional
  • Guadra (python), uninhibited, powerful, deadly in relationships
  • Otisuami (snail), mopey, ridden with woe, kind-hearted
  • Avanassa (avanassa), moody, artistic
  • Suiva (shark), noble, swift, can get angry easily
  • Pashav (sheep), reliable, minds his/her own business, not a team player
  • Gabobru (goat), wise, rough, wins every debate
  • Tezri (dragon), inwardly drawn, spiritual, untameable, special
These traits were least pronounced and more spread out among adjacent years in a person born in year 1 of each cycle, so that a Uabangu born in the year 17 had many of the traits of the adjoining Moiti and Bedro, but they became stronger with each passing year, until in year 16 of the cycle, the traits were at their most prominent, so a Uabangu born in the year 32 would be very hot-tempered indeed!
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by sangi39 »

Bit of an old thread, but I was working on a lunisolar calendar for Earth recently and I've finished the "unmodified" version, so thought I'd throw it in here (rather that starting a new thread of putting it somewhere else)

So, usual jazz for lunisolar calendars, in that they primarily follow the lunar cycle (in this specific instance it goes from one new moon to the next new moon, allowing for solar eclipses to happen at the beginning or end of months as well), and then adjust by means of intercalary months to roughly align with the solar year. Months alternate between 29 and 30 days (the first month is 29, the second is 30, the third 29, fourth 30, etc.), with intercalary months at the ends of set years always being 30 days long. New Year is set (roughly) as the first new moon after the northern hemisphere winter solstice (northern bias showing)

It relies on a Metonic Cycle of 19 years, where years can be either "short" (354 days - 6 months of 29 days, 6 months of 30 days) or "long" (384 days - same as a short year, with an additional 30-day-long month at the end). The cycle for the long years is fixed, with the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years all being long, with the remaining 12 years all being short. This is identical to the Hebrew calendar, which I suppose isn't a coincidence, it just fell out of the maths (if you choose to use 19 years as your cycle)

In addition to this, the fifth month of the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 16th, 17th, 19th years, i.e. any long year, and any short year that falls between a long year and a short year, can also be given an intercalary day (taking it from 29 days to 30 days) roughly every three years each...

There's almost a pattern to this, which is that Month 5 of Year 1 of the Metonic Cycle contains a leap day in the 1st, 5th, 8th and 11th year of a group of 13 cycles. The next leap days in the next Metonic Cycle are contained within Month 5 of the Years 2, 6, 9, 12, then again in Years 3, 7, 10, 13 in the third Metonic Cycle and so on. This is adjusted as needed to keep in line with the lunar cycle at the moment


Anywha, four Metonic cycles constitutes what I had originally called a "Generation", lasting 76 years, or 27,759 days, which turns out is called a Callipic Cycle. Coincidentally, I'd then grouped these into something I'd called a "March", lasting nine "generations" but which skipped some of the leap days along the way (again, to stay as close as possible to the new moon as possible), where each March consists of two cycles of four "Generations" minus one leap day each (totalling 111,035 days [~304 solar years] each - again, apparently called a Hipparchic Cycle), followed by a ninth Generation which was usually 27,759 days, such that each March lasted around 249,829 days (~684 solar years)


Three Marches were grouped into a Procession, being 749,487, 749,486, and 749,456 days each (each around 2052 solar years long), where the second skips one leap day, and the third then skips the very final leap month. This is to keep the winter solstice within the same Calendar Month throughout the entire period, since is tend to drift back through the lunisolar calendar's final month over the centuries. To keep it within the last month of the lunisolar calendar, then, the final intercalary month of Year 19 of Generation 9 of March 9 needs to be skipped, or by the end of the next Generation, the winter solstice would fall in a different month*

*I don't think this is entirely necessary. The winter solstice falling back by over a month over 6000+ years could be used to mark the beginning of a different "period" in the calendar, but the aim is to keep the two events (winter solstice and new moon) as close to each other as possible

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As an example, this would be the number of days in Month 5 of each Cycle for each Generation within the first March
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by lurker »

Very well thought-out.

I don't have much laid out for Focus, other than a rudimentary calendar for Yih that reckons years from the Kindling of the Fire of Understanding (the emergence of sapience). Yih years are about 1.4 Earth years long, and there are exactly 528 Yih days per Yih year, making a Yih day just a bit longer than an Earth day at ~24.38 Earth hours. After finally meeting another sapient species (some sweaty hairless apes, as it happens) they start reckoning years from First Contact.

Years are divided into 4 seasons, and each season lasts 132 Yih days. There is also a 12-day "week".

Spacers usually measure time from the "Spacer Epoch" which is the founding of the first permanent orbital colony. It officially has no divisions larger than a beat which is a standardized time span in the same range as the SI second, and is meant to approximate a yinrih's resting heart rate.
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by sangi39 »

sangi39 wrote: 19 May 2024 00:53 Bit of an old thread, but I was working on a lunisolar calendar for Earth recently and I've finished the "unmodified" version, so thought I'd throw it in here (rather that starting a new thread of putting it somewhere else)

...
So, I had a quick run at a modified version of this calendar, and then further modified version, so that it felt more "regular". Like, I think, having a run back and forth over the big old spreadsheet for it (thank you, conditional formatting), there are maybe one or two times every 76 years where the first day of the month is more than 24 hours before or after the actual new moon, but still less than 48 hours. That's maybe ~340 instances of that over 76140 months so it's out by the "ideal" amount like ~0.44% of the time, which I'm cool with

Aaaaaanyway, so, the new rules are as follows:

1) Months alternate between 29 days and 30 days
2) In a 19 year cycle, years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 (referred to as long years) have an additional thirteenth month of 30 days (years with only 12 months are called short years)
3) Four 19-year cycles are known as a Generation; Nine Generations are known as a March; Nine Marches are known as a Procession
4) Leap days are inserted at the end of Month 5 (thus making it a 30-day month in these years) in any year with a 19-year cycle that is either long (years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 as mentioned above), or any year that is short, following a short year and preceding a long year, i.e. years 2, 5, 10, 13, and 16
5a) The first leap day is inserted into the first instance of Year 2 (i.e. of Cycle 1, in Generation 1, in March 1), then into the Year 3 of the next cycle, then Year 5 of the third cycle, and so on, until finally falling in Year 19 of Cycle 4, in Generation 3 (that is to say, the leap day progresses through the list of appropriate years until it hits year 19, which is known as Trail)
5b) The next leap day is then inserted after the next full cycle is complete, i.e., in this instance, Year 2 of Cycle 2, in Generation 4, as opposed to Cycle 1, and the next Trail begins (this creates a pattern roughly of a Trail, then three Cycles where Year 2 does not contain a leap day, then three or four Trails with a gap of two Cycles, which all collectively known as a Chain, with the Trails being followed by three cycles being the first in a Chain)
5c) However, the Trail skips Year 8 in Trail 2 in a Chain, in all Chains except 1, 5, 9, 14, and 19*, where Year 8 is included in Trail 2
6) The first instances of Years 6, 11, and 16 also contain leap days, with similar, shorter Chains (but following the same rules as above)
7) Year 19 in Cycle 4, in Generation 9 or March 9, at the end of the Procession, does not contain a 13th month, in order for the (northern hemisphere) Winter Solstice to occur within the first month of the year; Similarly, this Year does not contain a leap day, although it otherwise should

*There are 21 Chains in a Procession (sort of... Chain 21 is "overlong" containing six Trails, as opposed the the usual four or five)


As an example:

Image


Short years coloured orange, long years blue, and months containing leap days in purple with a border. And then a much more zoomed out version, where the gaps in the Trails/Chains become a bit clearer over longer periods of time, followed by the equivalent zoomed out view of the unmodified calender:

Modified
Image

Unmodified
Image

Very conveniently, the final year of the Procession has leap days in Years 5, 10, and 14, which means the next leaps days should occur in Years 6, 11, and 16, as was the case at the start of the Procession. Plus skipping the leap day in the last month of the Procession means the last full chain ended in Year 17, meaning the next Procession can also have a leap day in Year 2, meaning the whole process can, in theory, just be repeated.

Given the calendar as this point lasts for 6156 years, I'm pretty happy with that. If there's some adjustment that needs to be made at the start of another Procession, I'm sure it can be managed [:P]
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by eldin raigmore »

@Sangi39:
I worked out a similar (up to a point) lunisolar calendar for my conworlds.
Time in that calendar comes in Ages that are 3 Metonic cycles (3*19 = 57 years) long.
Unfortunately I can’t find it anymore; or, at least, not quickly!
….
The other things you said, that are about other things than days, months, and years: I never did anything like that!
In fact I doubt I’ve ever read or heard about anything similar before!
I imagine it will take me some time to understand it; and, when I do, I’ll find it interesting!
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by eldin raigmore »

eldin raigmore wrote: 07 Dec 2017 20:40 Adpihi's calendar is a lunisolar calendar.
It has days, months, and years.
Months are either 29 days long or 30 days long.
Years are either 12 months long or 13 months long.
A 12-month year may be 354 days long (if it has 6 29-day months and 6 30-day months) or 355 days long (if it has 5 29-day months and 7 30-day months)
A 13-month year may be 383 days long (if it has 7 29-day months and 6 30-day months) or 384 days long (if it has 6 29-day months and 7 30-day months).

There is a cycle that's 57 years long == 705 months long == 20819 days long.
It's divided into three subcycles that are each 19 years == 235 months long; two of them are 6940 days long and one is only 6939 days long.

Each 19-year subcycle has 12 12-month years and 7 13-month years.
Its 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years are 13-month years; the rest are all 12-month years.

I've forgotten how the number of days in each month are calculated. I'll look it up.
Spoiler:
It's close to this:
There's a 360 month == 10631-day cycle.
Each odd-numbered month in the cycle -- the 1st, 3rd, 5th, ... , 355th, 357th, 359th etc. -- is 30 days long.
Each even-numbered month in the cycle is only 29-days long:
EXCEPT
that every twelfth month (e.g. 12th, 24th, 36th, ... , 324th, 336th, 348th etc.) is 30 days long again;
EXCEPT
that every 360th month in the cycle is still just 29 days long.

Edit: In the spoiler below, I've summarised some information from my spreadsheet about this lunisolar calendar.
Spoiler:
The 57-year, 705-month, 20819-day cycle, contains 36 12-month years and 21 13-month years.
Those 36 12-month years consist of 23 354-day years and 13 355-day years.
Those 21 13-month years consist of 2 383-day years and 19 384-day years.

The 705 months consist of 374 30-day months and 331 29-day months.
In a 12-month 354-day year, every odd-numbered month is 30 days long and every even-numbered month is 29 days long.
In a 12-month 355-day year, every odd-numbered month is 30 days long, and so is the 12th month; every other even-numbered month is 29 days long.
In a 13-month 383-day year, every odd-numbered month is 29 days long and every even-numbered month is 30 days long.
In a 13-month 384-day year, every odd-numbered month is 30 days long and every even-numbered month is 29 days long.

In any 19-year subcycle, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years are 13-month years; all other years are 12-month years.
The 19th year and the 38th year of a 57-year cycle are 383 days long; the 57th year, and all other 13-month years, are 384 days long.

I have yet to think of a fast way to summarize how the 13 355-day 12-month years are distributed among the 23 354-day 12-month years.
When (if?) I do, I'll probably update this post.


[edit2]
Edit: Except for the "it's a lunisolar calendar" part, all of the above is subject to change, now. I just found out I'd been using wrong numbers for days-per-month and days-per-year. They are off by less than a thousandth of a day; but it's enough to make a difference.
[/edit2]

So far I haven't decided much about naming the years or months or days.
And I haven't decided much about having a fixed-number-of-days (between 4 days and 10 days) week shorter than a month.

The years are closely aligned with the seasons; and the months are closely aligned with the phases of the moon.




The “Ages” are based on the ancient Roman tradition of ‘Secular Games” every 60 years.
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by sangi39 »

eldin raigmore wrote: 27 May 2024 03:02
eldin raigmore wrote: 07 Dec 2017 20:40 Adpihi's calendar is a lunisolar calendar.
It has days, months, and years.
Months are either 29 days long or 30 days long.
Years are either 12 months long or 13 months long.
A 12-month year may be 354 days long (if it has 6 29-day months and 6 30-day months) or 355 days long (if it has 5 29-day months and 7 30-day months)
A 13-month year may be 383 days long (if it has 7 29-day months and 6 30-day months) or 384 days long (if it has 6 29-day months and 7 30-day months).

There is a cycle that's 57 years long == 705 months long == 20819 days long.
It's divided into three subcycles that are each 19 years == 235 months long; two of them are 6940 days long and one is only 6939 days long.

Each 19-year subcycle has 12 12-month years and 7 13-month years.
Its 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years are 13-month years; the rest are all 12-month years.

I've forgotten how the number of days in each month are calculated. I'll look it up.
Spoiler:
It's close to this:
There's a 360 month == 10631-day cycle.
Each odd-numbered month in the cycle -- the 1st, 3rd, 5th, ... , 355th, 357th, 359th etc. -- is 30 days long.
Each even-numbered month in the cycle is only 29-days long:
EXCEPT
that every twelfth month (e.g. 12th, 24th, 36th, ... , 324th, 336th, 348th etc.) is 30 days long again;
EXCEPT
that every 360th month in the cycle is still just 29 days long.

Edit: In the spoiler below, I've summarised some information from my spreadsheet about this lunisolar calendar.
Spoiler:
The 57-year, 705-month, 20819-day cycle, contains 36 12-month years and 21 13-month years.
Those 36 12-month years consist of 23 354-day years and 13 355-day years.
Those 21 13-month years consist of 2 383-day years and 19 384-day years.

The 705 months consist of 374 30-day months and 331 29-day months.
In a 12-month 354-day year, every odd-numbered month is 30 days long and every even-numbered month is 29 days long.
In a 12-month 355-day year, every odd-numbered month is 30 days long, and so is the 12th month; every other even-numbered month is 29 days long.
In a 13-month 383-day year, every odd-numbered month is 29 days long and every even-numbered month is 30 days long.
In a 13-month 384-day year, every odd-numbered month is 30 days long and every even-numbered month is 29 days long.

In any 19-year subcycle, the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 19th years are 13-month years; all other years are 12-month years.
The 19th year and the 38th year of a 57-year cycle are 383 days long; the 57th year, and all other 13-month years, are 384 days long.

I have yet to think of a fast way to summarize how the 13 355-day 12-month years are distributed among the 23 354-day 12-month years.
When (if?) I do, I'll probably update this post.


[edit2]
Edit: Except for the "it's a lunisolar calendar" part, all of the above is subject to change, now. I just found out I'd been using wrong numbers for days-per-month and days-per-year. They are off by less than a thousandth of a day; but it's enough to make a difference.
[/edit2]

So far I haven't decided much about naming the years or months or days.
And I haven't decided much about having a fixed-number-of-days (between 4 days and 10 days) week shorter than a month.

The years are closely aligned with the seasons; and the months are closely aligned with the phases of the moon.




The “Ages” are based on the ancient Roman tradition of ‘Secular Games” every 60 years.

I had a similar set up, I think, initially, but using a 76-year-long cycle of four Metonic cycles, where years could be either 354, 355, 384 or 385 days long. From what I can remember, this was based on trying to reduce the drift of the Winter Solstice, but for the life of me I can’t find the original version, but I shared the modified version over in the Conversation thread when talking about the calendar I wanted to use for my druid D&D character

In that version, the first leap day happened in Month 1 of Year 3, with the following pattern of gaps between the years:

3 – 5 6 5 6 5 – 5 6 5 6 5 – 5 6 5

So that years 3, 6, 11, 17, 22, 28, 33, 38, 44, 49, 55, 60, 65, 71, and 76 contained leap days, also meant that all short years were 354 days long except Year 28 (which was 355 days long), otherwise leap days could only occur in thirteen-month-long years


As for the whole "Trail", "Chain", "Generation", "March", "Procession" jazz, those are just names I threw in on the fly and they stuck, and I think only the "Generation" matches up with anything I can find information on, i.e. the Callipic Cycle, but everything after that doesn't seem to have a real-world counterpart, at least not as far as I could find (I seem to remember finding amendments to the Hebrew Calendar that shared some similarities, though, but can't remember where)


I did notice one thing, actually, while working on it using specific dates... I had stupidly assumed that the winter solstice, the new moon, and the start of the calendar all "began" at the exact same point in time, so the exact distance between the calendar and those two events can be larger or smaller depending on exactly when you choose to start the calendar

Another thing I realised, which I don't think I spotted before, is that while the "month" the winter solstice occurs in stays "the same", that's actually more like a 28 to 29-day-long period that gradually drifts backwards through the calendar as a whole. For instance, taking 6pm on 21st December 1995 as the start of the calendar, in the first Cycle, the earliest that the winter solstice can fall is 1 day 11 hours and 14 minutes before the start of Month 1 of Year 9, and then 26 days 11 hours and 16 minutes after the start of Year 17, a difference of around 28 days. This different stays about the same, but falls behind each generation until the final cycle, where the earliest is 29 days before the start of the month, and the latest just over a day before

I don't think I want to resolve this, since it messes with the pattern of calendar, and skipping that very final leap month does bring it back eventually (I mean, it's a one month drift over 6000+ years, so it could be worse), but I'm having a fiddle around with it anyway to see if there's any sort of regularity to a potential resolution anyway (at the moment it involves switching Year 8 and Year 9 round, and then Years 19 and Year 1 most of the time), to try and keep the winter solstice within the first month of the year
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by Salmoneus »

I don't know about the maths, but when I see a calendar witha 6,000-year cycle, my first thought is that human empires tend to last 100-300 years at a time. Languages, religions, civilisations, technologies... nothing in the human world lasts 6,000 years. So who is faithfully following these rules for 6,000 years at a time without forgetting, misunderstanding, or intentionally innovating away from, any detail of them?


EDIT: to add something more constructive, let's look at european calendars for illustration, starting in Rome.

Rome adopted its first robustly-known calendar probably in 450BC, with Greek origin. It had four months of 31 days, seven of 29 days and one of 28 days. Pretty clearly that was the result of some tinkering already. There was an intercalary month added every two years - February had 5 days taken out, and an intercalary month of either 27 or 28 days was added (alternatingly). Occasionally an additional day was added here and there to avoid unlucky coincidences.

Allegedly, they then tried to improve this by reducing some intercalary months to 27 days instead of 28, and removing one intercalation every 24 years. It's unclear if this was ever really the rule, but it certainly wasn't followed regularly for long.

Around 300BC, the state reformed the calendar again in some unknown way and attempted to remove control over the calendar from the priests, who weren't dealing with it very well.

By about 200BC, however, the calendar had gotten wildly out of sync with the actual year - by about an entire season. There was a major adjustment, and the pontifex maximus was given control over the calendar. But within a few decades they were already months out again.

By about 50BC, the calendar had no relation to the year at all really. A cunning solution to this had been found: the pontifex maximus would simply declare that he had done the astronomical observations and declared that the year was correct, even though everyone knew it wasn't. This saved a lot of time and energy.

Around that time, Julius Caesar changed the calendar, adding ten additional days to the year, eliminating intercalary months but having one intercalary day every four years. To get the calendar back in line with the year, the final year of the old calendar needed to have THREE intercalary months added (for a total of a 446-day year).

However, since the priests couldn't reliably count to four, the calendar had to be rest only about 15 years later by cancelling leap years for several decades. Even after this, however, they messed with the calendar by randomly adding days here and there for good luck.

Around 300AD, everyone switched from an 8-day week to a 7-day week. Around the same time they also started counting the days of the month from 0 upward (rather than from around minus 15). Also around this time, they stopped naming years by consuls, and instead used the indiction cycle, which continued in use for the next thousand years or so, gradually being supplanted by the AD system.

Around 1600, the old calendar was reformed again into the current system. This took over 300 years to fully implement, and involved the subtraction of different numbers of days in different countries. In several countries (including England) it was initially implemented incorrectly and had to be subsequently modified again.

Around 1800, political upheaval lead to an attempt to completely decimalise the system. But the revolutionaries lost and the old system was retained.

Around 1970, a new calendar involving intercalated weeks was introduced by the ISO. It, and slight variations of it, are widely used by governments, accountants and broadcasters, but it hasn't yet been fully popularly adopted.
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Re: Calendars (for Earth and for conworlds)

Post by sangi39 »

Salmoneus wrote: 27 May 2024 14:39 I don't know about the maths, but when I see a calendar witha 6,000-year cycle, my first thought is that human empires tend to last 100-300 years at a time. Languages, religions, civilisations, technologies... nothing in the human world lasts 6,000 years. So who is faithfully following these rules for 6,000 years at a time without forgetting, misunderstanding, or intentionally innovating away from, any detail of them?
This is very fair [:D] Like, from what I can tell, most calendars that have any sort of "cycles of exceptions" in them have scales of maybe a few centuries to handle those exceptions (e.g. the 400-year exception to the Gregorian calendar), and then just sort of go "nah, that's good enough", and anything larger than that seems to be pretty much entirely regular, or sort of beyond the scope of the everyday calendar (I don't think anyone's seriously measuring time and noting dates in relation to yugas, even if they could agree with everyone who has a concept of a yuga which one is the current yuga)

Definitely did get very focused on "reduce drift" somewhere between "just change the start dates of months based on what's observed in the sky" and "simple rules that drift a bit more than ideal, but are easy to apply, and, you know, useable". This is much easier to manage, but the drift threw me off, even though it a) has exactly the same amount of drift, just b) takes longer to catch up with itself:

Image
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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