(C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

[lurker]

I had this idea for an anti-vegan society, i.e. they only use animal products, mostly because I thought it was funny. But then I looked at the way that Inuit people live and thought it might be possible. But even Inuits eat berries and almost certainly have medicinal uses for plants and fungi.
Is there really any way to have a society that only uses animal products?

Make them nonhumans who can't digest plant matter? Cats are like that I believe.

[Keenir]

I had this idea for an anti-vegan society, i.e. they only use animal products, mostly because I thought it was funny. But then I looked at the way that Inuit people live and thought it might be possible. But even Inuits eat berries and almost certainly have medicinal uses for plants and fungi.
Is there really any way to have a society that only uses animal products?

Yes. Just have your conculture unable to eat those plants and fungi (toxic, parasite-riddled, some other reason)

[lurker]

I had this idea for an anti-vegan society, i.e. they only use animal products, mostly because I thought it was funny. But then I looked at the way that Inuit people live and thought it might be possible. But even Inuits eat berries and almost certainly have medicinal uses for plants and fungi.
Is there really any way to have a society that only uses animal products?

Alternatively, you could make them autotrophs that synthesize their own food (photosynthesis/chemosynthesis). Maybe they're disgusted at the idea that an organism has to kill and consume any living thing to survive, not just animals.

[Visions1]

I think a meat-only society would be pretty good for a sea-dwelling species. Using coral to slowly build things, for example (though it doesn't sound so viable.)

[Keenir]

I think a meat-only society would be pretty good for a sea-dwelling species. Using coral to slowly build things, for example (though it doesn't sound so viable.)

depends on how often they need to build new structures, as opposed to continuing the use of a structure that may or may not be slowly expanding/spreading.

...coral is pretty tough - at least the reef-building ones are; the soft corals may be used for other things (hunting or defensive tools?)

[Omzinesý]

Not really a conworld question but anyway.

I'm developing a fantacy world that is like the ancient Greek mythology or Old Testament. Each people has its own god, and the gods also meet each other.

I'm planning a fantacy novel that starts from the not-so-unique setting that one god gets angry with the others. What could be the cause? It should be something bigger than Paris giving an apple to another god.

If you have innovative ideas, I'm happy to receive them.

[Creyeditor]

Why do I get angry at people? Someone promised to do something something and they don't do it. Someone has a duty or is responsible for doing something and they don't do it. Some insults me or my family. Someone is proposing something that will have universally bad consequences and they still want to do it even if I point them out.

Edit: Oh, there is a problem and I suggest a solution and somebody starts screaming and choses to actively ignore the problem.

[Dormouse559]

Some mismatch in godly values? For example, there’s God A, who despises hubris, and there’s God B, who prizes boasting and shows of strength. Then God B’s hero barges into God A’s temple and boasts that he is stronger than God A, who promptly smites him. Chaos ensues.

It sounds like you want a rather serious inciting incident. If these gods have some Greek inspiration, though, a bit of pettiness wouldn’t be out of place.

[Omzinesý]

Thank you!

I like the idea that somebody solves a problem but some gods don't like it. It could be humans making some trade agreements. Gods don't like it because it benefits the other gods' peoples as well. This is of course not quite what I asked cos it's not a god that initiates the quarrel but the gods can well get angry with each other because of what humans do.
Urging a hero to a temple could be the second move.

[Keenir]

I like the idea that somebody solves a problem but some gods don't like it. It could be humans making some trade agreements. Gods don't like it because it benefits the other gods' peoples as well. This is of course not quite what I asked cos it's not a god that initiates the quarrel but the gods can well get angry with each other because of what humans do.
Urging a hero to a temple could be the second move.

maybe its humans violating agreements that the gods have between their divine selves? ie, El gets irked when people turn to Ba'al for more than just rain and agriculture; or a merchant convinces people that, because the trade goods are being transported on wagons, that praise and offerings should go to Hephestus rather than to Hermes.

[Salmoneus]

Not really a conworld question but anyway.

I'm developing a fantacy world that is like the ancient Greek mythology or Old Testament. Each people has its own god, and the gods also meet each other.

Just to be clear, though, this isn't like ancient Greek mythology at all. The Greeks didn't have a "one people one god" idea - the gods were thought to transcend petty human divisions. Different cities (rather than races!) could have particular affection for specific gods, and gods could occasionally particularly favour certain cities over others. But all the gods were worshipped everywhere, each god had many different places associated with them, and gods could favour causes and individuals as well as places. [and the gods were much more invested in PLACES than in PEOPLE. When Athens was worried they had offended Apollo, for instance, they ritually purified the island of Delos, which they happened to control - because Delos "belonged" to Apollo]

Most strikingly, although the main conflict in Greece was between Athens and Sparta, both cities considered Athena their patron deity (as did all those in the Greek world who favoured learning, civilisation and just war).

It also isn't really Old Testament theology. In the Old Testament, it's ambiguous whether other gods exist at all, and if they do they certainly don't meet up for chats!

I'd describe this really more as a "David Eddings" mythology.

[in Eddings' first world, that of the Belgariad/Mallorean, the motivations of the bad guys always seems vague. He takes a lot from Tolkien: the evil god, Torak, is beautiful and arrogant, until being maimed whiled attempting to steal the magic crystal that he covets. The other gods go to war with him to steal the magic crystal back again, and so on. Ultimately however this is all in some obscure way motivated by a zorastrian conflict between transcendent light and dark spirits, each associated with a magic crystal, of which the gods themselves are merely pawns. In Eddings' second world, of the Elenium/Tamuli, this zorastrian and crystal-based level reappears in the latter series, but in general the gods themselves aren't that interested in conflict, and are mostly petty and easily-distracted beings (apart from the famously boring, christian-like god of the heroes), with conflict among the gods driven by conflict among their human followers, rather than vice versa. However, in the Elenium he also brings in a Lovecraftian and Greek element: at some point in the past the various modern gods have overthrown the unspeakably evil and disgusting "Elder Gods", and the attempts of one of these Elder Gods, Azash, to return to power are the driver for the plot.]

[Omzinesý]

Not really a conworld question but anyway.

I'm developing a fantacy world that is like the ancient Greek mythology or Old Testament. Each people has its own god, and the gods also meet each other.

Just to be clear, though, this isn't like ancient Greek mythology at all. The Greeks didn't have a "one people one god" idea - the gods were thought to transcend petty human divisions. Different cities (rather than races!) could have particular affection for specific gods, and gods could occasionally particularly favour certain cities over others. But all the gods were worshipped everywhere, each god had many different places associated with them, and gods could favour causes and individuals as well as places. [and the gods were much more invested in PLACES than in PEOPLE. When Athens was worried they had offended Apollo, for instance, they ritually purified the island of Delos, which they happened to control - because Delos "belonged" to Apollo]

Most strikingly, although the main conflict in Greece was between Athens and Sparta, both cities considered Athena their patron deity (as did all those in the Greek world who favoured learning, civilisation and just war).

It also isn't really Old Testament theology. In the Old Testament, it's ambiguous whether other gods exist at all, and if they do they certainly don't meet up for chats!

I'd describe this really more as a "David Eddings" mythology.

[in Eddings' first world, that of the Belgariad/Mallorean, the motivations of the bad guys always seems vague. He takes a lot from Tolkien: the evil god, Torak, is beautiful and arrogant, until being maimed whiled attempting to steal the magic crystal that he covets. The other gods go to war with him to steal the magic crystal back again, and so on. Ultimately however this is all in some obscure way motivated by a zorastrian conflict between transcendent light and dark spirits, each associated with a magic crystal, of which the gods themselves are merely pawns. In Eddings' second world, of the Elenium/Tamuli, this zorastrian and crystal-based level reappears in the latter series, but in general the gods themselves aren't that interested in conflict, and are mostly petty and easily-distracted beings (apart from the famously boring, christian-like god of the heroes), with conflict among the gods driven by conflict among their human followers, rather than vice versa. However, in the Elenium he also brings in a Lovecraftian and Greek element: at some point in the past the various modern gods have overthrown the unspeakably evil and disgusting "Elder Gods", and the attempts of one of these Elder Gods, Azash, to return to power are the driver for the plot.]

Yes of course I could have said Iliad instead of Greek mythology. If I understand correctly Troy war was a kind of proxy way for gods.

I had to google Eddings.

[Salmoneus]

The Trojan War did have gods on (or behind) both sides, but not because different gods supported different races or nationalities. And they don't create the war (well, Zeus does, obviously, the whole thing is just a way for him to make sure his various children all get murdered, but very indirectly).

The Greeks go to war with Troy because Helen fell in love with Paris. Aphrodite defends Paris, because she was the one who promised him Helen. Athena and Hera support the Greeks, because they're both pissed off that Paris said Aphrodite was prettier than them. Ares supports Troy because Aphrodite is his girlfriend (and also Ares and Athena are natural enemies, which encourages them both into the war). Hephaestus supports the Greeks because Aphrodite is his ex-wife who cheated on him with Ares. Other gods happened to have grudges against people on one side or the other, so joined in.


[wow, how the generations move on. Eddings was the bestselling fantasy author of the 80s, and one of the bestselling of all time. For at least one if not two generations of fantasy fans, Eddings was the gateway drug. A lot of fantasy clichés, like the "different races each have their own god and go to war when their gods do" and "farm boy discovers an ancient prophecy says he is the messiah and also secretly royalty" were popularised by Eddings]

[Khemehekis]

[wow, how the generations move on. Eddings was the bestselling fantasy author of the 80s, and one of the bestselling of all time. For at least one if not two generations of fantasy fans, Eddings was the gateway drug. A lot of fantasy clichés, like the "different races each have their own god and go to war when their gods do" and "farm boy discovers an ancient prophecy says he is the messiah and also secretly royalty" were popularised by Eddings]

Wasn't David Eddings that guy who set a gasoline fire in his garage that destroyed his original manuscripts a few years back, and said, "Stupid"?

[Salmoneus]

Yes, he was flushing petrol out of his car with water, and wanted to know whether the liquid he was taking out of the car still had petrol in it, so he set fire to it, and it did indeed still have petrol in it. He suffered serious burns, as did his house.

In fairness, he probably had dementia at the time.

Also, he used to torture children, so I wouldn't feel too bad for him.

[Visions1]

Firstly, I think you should look at some ancient Near Eastern mythology - Ugarit, Anatolia, and in particular Mesopotamia.

Let's assume the following:
1) In this particular part of your world, it's common that each people has its own god, exclusive to it, and viewed as distinct to all others.
Henotheism, in other words, but a bit more. Big stuff in the Levant and Mesopotamia (at least in state religions).
2) These gods are tangible.
Like, we all agree gravity exists (physicists don't correct me), but we don't see it beyond its effects.
Here, it's a "we can see it" situation. The gods really are stuck-up kings in the sky.

Barring the fact that gods often get into arguments in real-world mythologies for personal reasons (such as Innana and Dumuzid's story) or petty ones (such as Apollo getting Troy destroyed because a woman there didn't dig him), I imagine you're looking for some global reasons.

---

How about a god who wants this one really good thing for his people, while the other gods disagree? Maybe something groundbreaking, like writing or gunpowder or steam/nuclear power. He simply wants to improve his people's lives - the other gods fear their peoples will be destroyed (or won't like them anymore). Both are very justified, making for a good story.

Maybe they're arguing over who has dibs on a prophet or king or hero with crazy charisma.

Maybe a philosopher proves the existence of the monad, and now the gods are arguing along with their peoples over who's the greatest.

I would make some "other" suggestions, but you guys would look at me like I'm belong in jail. But then again, you're looking for valid reasons to murder somebody, and real mythologies are insane.

[Creyeditor]

What are good English names for con-units of length that measure approx. 15 m and 150 m, respectively? I know of furlongs/stades and chains but they are not as commonly understood as miles and bodypart-based units, I guess.

[Visions1]

Howabout ells, cubits, perches, fathoms, arpents, and day/hourwalks?

[Khemehekis]

What are good English names for con-units of length that measure approx. 15 m and 150 m, respectively? I know of furlongs/stades and chains but they are not as commonly understood as miles and bodypart-based units, I guess.

I think if you have a reader who follows horse races, s/he will have a good idea of how long a furlong is.

[Keenir]

What are good English names for con-units of length that measure approx. 15 m and 150 m, respectively?

I believe we call them a "yonder" and "theresabouts." (wait, i may be misunderstanding the question - are you asking what the English names are, or are you asking for invented names using English?)

I know of furlongs/stades and chains but they are not as commonly understood as miles and bodypart-based units, I guess.

so, does that mean you know how tall something that is four hands high is?