Conlang mini-ideas

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Ælfwine
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by Ælfwine »

Creyeditor wrote: 07 Jun 2024 18:21 A Slavic Conlang that neutralized all (secondary) palatalization and (primary) palatals. I was thinking that vowels after palatalized consonants or iotated vowels become front vowels. And palatals as well as postalveolars become alveolars. Affricates become fricatives. Probably that would mean lots and lots of /s/'s and /z/'s. Maybe spoken somewhere in the very west. I was thinking that stress could be mostly fixed either on the initial or on the penultimate syllable.
When I worked on my Slavlang, Jezik Panúski, I had something like this, with stress retracted mostly to the first syllable and I think I was developing front rounded vowels by iotating back rounded ones.
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

A satyrical 18th-century philosophical language wherein all nominals in a sentence can only be defined by producing a set of variables and classifying each element with respect to those. For instance, if we have a sentence with four nominals ("the farmer gave a book to the elephant by the river") we use two variables of our choice like [±animate] and [±natural]:

Code: Select all

      +ANIM     -ANIM
+NAT  elephant  river
-NAT  farmer    book
Then we need only a verb, a template for the sentence, and labels for the variables, something like this:

Amuka imero vevaroriveki kuri kene muka myro.
a-muka i-mero veva-rori-veki ku-ri ke-ne mu-ka me-ro
variable.α-"animate" variable.β-"natural" A.gives.B-to.C-in.the.presence.of.D [+α][+β]-C [+α][-β]-A [-α][+β]-D [-α][-β]-B

"The farmer gave a book to the elephant by the river"

Want to add adjectives? Just throw in another variable

Amuka imero opoky vevaroriveki kuvyri keryne muryka myryro.
a-muka i-mero o-poky veva-rori-veki kuvy-ri kery-ne mury-ka mery-ro
variable.α-"animate" variable.β-"natural" variable.γ-"grateful" A.gives.B-to.C-in.the.presence.of.D [+α][+β][+γ]-C [+α][-β][-γ]-A [-α][+β][-γ]-D [-α][-β][-γ]-B

"The farmer gave a book to the ungrateful elephant by the river"

Alternatively, you could just list constituents in order from +++.... to ---... and do away with some junk labels:

Amuka imero opoky vevaroriveki myrireru.
a-muka i-mero o-poky veva-rori-veki m-y-r-i-r-e-r-u
variable.α-"animate" variable.β-"natural" variable.γ-"grateful" A.gives.B-to.C-in.the.presence.of.D C-∅-∅-A-∅-D-∅-B

"The farmer gave a book to the ungrateful elephant by the river"

The more nominals you add the more concise it gets. With four variables you can have sixteen nominals expressed using only five words. Of course this relies on the ingenuity of the speaker in coming up with four variables which can adequately distinguish sixteen elements, which would be very difficult. But I guess as a philosophical language it's supposed to make people think gooder, innit?


Other ideas to complicate this further are basing variables entirely on binary suprasegmentals:

Búká bery pǫkǫ vevamávǫdépį.
HIGH_buka FRONT_baro NASAL_poko veva-ba_HIGH_BACK_NASAL-vo_LOW_BACK_NASAL-da_HIGH_FRONT_ORAL-pu_LOW_FRONT_NASAL
variable.α_"animate" variable.β_"natural" variable.γ_"grateful" gives-agent_+α_-β_+γ-patient_-α_-β_+γ-recipient_+α_+β_-γ-locative_-α_+β_+γ

"The farmer gave a book to the ungrateful elephant by the river"
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Pabappa
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by Pabappa »

The first bit looks like something that might evolve in my languages, particularly the Lava Bed family. For example, where you write A.gives.B-to.C-in.the.presence.of.D i realized it would fit perfectly well with the four theta roles of Lava Bed languages: agent, patient, identity, observer. And by not mentioning the nouns directly you remind me of Dreamlandic, which has a huge number of noun classes which express about half of the "semantics" of each noun, with the base noun expressing the other half. In theory the base nouns could be omitted entirely and there would be a sentence something like what you wrote, where only someone who knows what all the nouns were would actually understand it, but it would still be much clearer than the English "He gave it to her by it" or the like.
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Creyeditor
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by Creyeditor »

Ælfwine wrote: 08 Jun 2024 07:03
Creyeditor wrote: 07 Jun 2024 18:21 A Slavic Conlang that neutralized all (secondary) palatalization and (primary) palatals. I was thinking that vowels after palatalized consonants or iotated vowels become front vowels. And palatals as well as postalveolars become alveolars. Affricates become fricatives. Probably that would mean lots and lots of /s/'s and /z/'s. Maybe spoken somewhere in the very west. I was thinking that stress could be mostly fixed either on the initial or on the penultimate syllable.
When I worked on my Slavlang, Jezik Panúski, I had something like this, with stress retracted mostly to the first syllable and I think I was developing front rounded vowels by iotating back rounded ones.
I might have been influenced by this unknowingly.
VaptuantaDoi wrote: 08 Jun 2024 10:27 A satyrical 18th-century philosophical language wherein all nominals in a sentence can only be defined by producing a set of variables and classifying each element with respect to those. For instance, if we have a sentence with four nominals ("the farmer gave a book to the elephant by the river") we use two variables of our choice like [±animate] and [±natural]:
This looks more like a 20th century American Structuralism kind of thing.
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

Pabappa wrote: 08 Jun 2024 10:45 The first bit looks like something that might evolve in my languages, particularly the Lava Bed family. For example, where you write A.gives.B-to.C-in.the.presence.of.D i realized it would fit perfectly well with the four theta roles of Lava Bed languages: agent, patient, identity, observer. And by not mentioning the nouns directly you remind me of Dreamlandic, which has a huge number of noun classes which express about half of the "semantics" of each noun, with the base noun expressing the other half. In theory the base nouns could be omitted entirely and there would be a sentence something like what you wrote, where only someone who knows what all the nouns were would actually understand it, but it would still be much clearer than the English "He gave it to her by it" or the like.
Yeah, it did remind me of your languages a bit when I was writing it up. I don't think my thing would actually be very usable, but with only a hundred variables, you could specify roughly 1010¹⁹⁹ nominals – which is quite a lot, even if they're highly ambiguous. It would be evil fun to use in a conlang relay though...

Creyeditor wrote: 08 Jun 2024 14:54 This looks more like a 20th century American Structuralism kind of thing.
True.
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by Creyeditor »

A conlang that has total harnony for both vowels and consonants, such that only the first vowel and the first consonant and the number and structure of syllables is phonemic.

e.g.
[kuku]
/ku/-/ta/
cat-child
'kitten'

[an:a]
/an/-/ta/
dog-child
'puppy'

[kuk]
/ku/-/C/
cat-PL
'cats'

[an:]
/an/-/C/
dog-PL
'dogs'

Everything looks reduplicated. Don't know what to do about prefixes, though. Or infixes. Or circumfixes.
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by Omzinesý »

Creyeditor wrote: 17 Jun 2024 12:20 A conlang that has total harnony for both vowels and consonants, such that only the first vowel and the first consonant and the number and structure of syllables is phonemic.

e.g.
[kuku]
/ku/-/ta/
cat-child
'kitten'

[an:a]
/an/-/ta/
dog-child
'puppy'

[kuk]
/ku/-/C/
cat-PL
'cats'

[an:]
/an/-/C/
dog-PL
'dogs'

Everything looks reduplicated. Don't know what to do about prefixes, though. Or infixes. Or circumfixes.
Little information can be coded outside the two first sounds. It is less than binary code cos very long sequences of vowel or consonant probably cannot be allowed.
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Re: Conlang mini-ideas

Post by Visions1 »

You could just throw in an inane number of consonants and make the rules a bit more expansive - for example, you could have the harmony for consonants go on articulation. So:
[kuku]
/ku/-/ta/
cat-child
'kitten'

[kuxuk]
/ku/-/sat/
cat-hair
'cat fur'

Throw in some sandhi and like 10 tones, and then...
someone more knowledgable than me can do something with it!
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