(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

[Creyeditor]

Well, you will have to mix and match, I guess.

[Man in Space]

Given this:
cv₁.ˈv₂v₂ > ˈcv₂v₂
cv₁v₁.ˈv₂v₂ > (cv₁.v₂v₂ >) ˈcv₂v₂
e.g. saˈii > ˈsii; saaˈii > saˈii > ˈsii

What's supposed to happen to the tone?
cv₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > ???
cv₁v₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > ???

cv₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > cv́₂v₂
cv₁v₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > cv₂v₂

Length of the first vowel determines what happens to the tone. Short V1 is simply lost, whereas long V1 spreads the accent to V2 before deletion.

[Visions1]

Beat me to it.

[sangi39]

Given this:
cv₁.ˈv₂v₂ > ˈcv₂v₂
cv₁v₁.ˈv₂v₂ > (cv₁.v₂v₂ >) ˈcv₂v₂
e.g. saˈii > ˈsii; saaˈii > saˈii > ˈsii

What's supposed to happen to the tone?
cv₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > ???
cv₁v₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > ???

For me, it'd go

cv₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > (cv́₂v₂ >) ˈcv́₂v₂
cv₁v₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > (cv₁.v́₂v₂ >) ˈcv₂v́₂

And then probably have that reinforced somehow, I imagine either as rising-falling vs. falling-rising on the stressed syllable, or as something like a gradual falling tone through the whole word, with a sharp rise at the beginning of the stressed syllable, followed by a fall during the same syllable for ˈcv́₂v₂ vs. a continued fall in tone throughout the whole word, followed by a sharp rise right at the end of the stressed syllable, with the following fall in tone occurring on the next syllable for ˈcv₂v́₂ (so some sort of pitch accent jazz)

[Ahzoh]

Given this:
cv₁.ˈv₂v₂ > ˈcv₂v₂
cv₁v₁.ˈv₂v₂ > (cv₁.v₂v₂ >) ˈcv₂v₂
e.g. saˈii > ˈsii; saaˈii > saˈii > ˈsii

What's supposed to happen to the tone?
cv₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > ???
cv₁v₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > ???

For me, it'd go

cv₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > (cv́₂v₂ >) ˈcv́₂v₂
cv₁v₁.ˈv́₂v₂ > (cv₁.v́₂v₂ >) ˈcv₂v́₂

And then probably have that reinforced somehow, I imagine either as rising-falling vs. falling-rising on the stressed syllable, or as something like a gradual falling tone through the whole word, with a sharp rise at the beginning of the stressed syllable, followed by a fall during the same syllable for ˈcv́₂v₂ vs. a continued fall in tone throughout the whole word, followed by a sharp rise right at the end of the stressed syllable, with the following fall in tone occurring on the next syllable for ˈcv₂v́₂ (so some sort of pitch accent jazz)

Well I intended that the falling tone was basically a 52 tone while the rising tone was 35.

Also I think I should just make it consistent so that I can have a distinction between:

Code: Select all

"sea-neut.sg-1sg.poss": maziy-a-ni /ma.ˈzí.ja.ni/  > /ma.ˈzí.a.ni/                  > maz-â-ni /ma.ˈzâː.ni/
"sea-neut.pl-1sg.poss": maziy-ā-ni /ma.zi.ˈjâː.ni/ > /ma.zi.ˈâː.ni/ > /ma.zi.ˈá.ni/ > maz-â-ni /ma.ˈzǎː.ni/

I wonder if I should go like Ancient Greek and have low tone follow a high tone even if it crosses syllable boundaries:
ˈcv́v̀—cv—cv (high-low-neutral-neutral)
ˈcv́—cv̀—cv (high-low-neutral)
*ˈcv́—cv̀v̀—ˈcv (high-low-low-neutral)

I envision it like how if you shake a rope you will get a high then a low before it levels out.

Though I have misgiving that it might result in runaway unmanageable complexity.

[Keenir]

If you want to code movement you might want to read up on Sign language orthographies. SLIPA might be a good start https://dedalvs.com/slipa.html. But Wikipedia is probably your friend, too.

Unfortunately, sign orthographies are designed for human sign languages.

*gasps*

not sure if the users of Tapissary are human, but there is also Rikchick...both of which, if memory serves, involve 3-dimensional movement, just like sign language.
https://dedalvs.com/smileys/2018.html

also, maybe do some reading about how researchers keep track of how and when and what percentage of their subjects change color when working with various cephalopods.

Although I could try to modify one to suit my needs.

sounds like a good plan.

[Omzinesý]

What interesting secondary meanings do causatives have?
I have read quite much about them years ago but no idea comes to my mind.
I'd like to have a causative in Jiimon but I wouldn't like to have just a causative but something broader.


Finnish has this so called emotional causative.

Minä panen
SG1.NOM fuck.SG1
'I fuck.'

Minua panettaa.
SG1.PART fuck.CAUS.SG3
'I feel horny.'

What else?

[Creyeditor]

German does not have a default productive causative, so here are some more specific constructions and their semantics

jemanden dazu bringen etwas zu tun
someone.ACC there.to bring.INF something to do.INF
'to indirectly cause someone to do s.th., e.g. to convince s.o. to do s.th., to blackmail s.o. into doing s.th., to make s.o. do s.th.'

jemanden etwas tun lassen
someone.ACC something do.INF let.INF
'to let s.o. do s.th., to allow s.o. to do s.th., to order s.o. to do s.th.'

jemanden dazu kriegen etwas zu tun
someone.ACC there.to get.INF something to do.INF
'to get s.o. to do s.th., to convince s.o. to do s.th. (against resistance), to lure s.o. into doing something'

jemanden dazu veranlassen etwas zu tun
someone.ACC there.to induce.INF something to do.INF
'to give s.o. a reason to do s.th., to order s.o. to do s.th.'

jemanden dazu zwingen etwas zu tun
someone.ACC there.to force.INF something to do.INF
'to force s.o. to s.th., to make s.o. do s.th.'

[lurker]

Anybody know of software or a website that allows you to very quickly enter arbitrary unicode characters? What I'm imagining is a site where there's an onscreen keyboard and a text box. When you click on any of the keys on the onscreen keyboard, it brings up a menu of unicode characters to choose from. Once you've assigned characters to keys and put the text box in focus, any key you type will cause the corresponding unicode char to appear instead of the normal char assigned to that key.

I know about the Microsoft keyboard layout creator, but I want something cross-platform and portable. Right now my solution is to copy the character from the charmap and use ctrl+v whenever I want to insert it, but that keeps me from copying anything else.

[WeepingElf]

Anybody know of software or a website that allows you to very quickly enter arbitrary unicode characters? What I'm imagining is a site where there's an onscreen keyboard and a text box. When you click on any of the keys on the onscreen keyboard, it brings up a menu of unicode characters to choose from. Once you've assigned characters to keys and put the text box in focus, any key you type will cause the corresponding unicode char to appear instead of the normal char assigned to that key.

I know about the Microsoft keyboard layout creator, but I want something cross-platform and portable. Right now my solution is to copy the character from the charmap and use ctrl+v whenever I want to insert it, but that keeps me from copying anything else.

This is what I use. It is somewhat unwieldy, but I have no idea how to do it better, nor do I know a better one.

[lsd]

I simply write the code for the unicode character I want, then alt X...

[HolyHandGrenade!]

Are there languages with a definite article but no demonstratives?

[Creyeditor]

Are there language without any morpheme or construction that expresses a demonstrative function? I haven't come across one so far, IINM.

[HolyHandGrenade!]

What strategies are there other than an article for “this/that” or “here/there”?

[Keenir]

What strategies are there other than an article for “this/that” or “here/there”?

near / far

beside {also good for possession} / away

[Creyeditor]

What strategies are there other than an article for “this/that” or “here/there”?

Colloquial German uses a stressed definite article as a demonstrative.

Der Apfel ist grün
The apple is green.

DER Apfel ist grün.
This/that apple is green.

Edit: According to WALS there are also languages with demonstrative affixes: https://wals.info/chapter/88

[lurker]

Now that I've moved the Commonthroat Lexicon to Obsidian, should I create separate entries for verbs that change meaning significantly when used in different voices or aspects?

𝚏𝙲𝚚 (no aspect) = to have
𝚜𝚐 𝚏𝙲𝚚 (inchoative) = to find/obtain
𝚏𝚋 𝚏𝙲𝚚 (cessative) = to lose

𝚜𝙱𝚛 (active/transitive) to remove
𝚛𝚙 𝚜𝙱𝚛 (reflexive) to leave

etc.

[Ahzoh]

Now that I've moved the Commonthroat Lexicon to Obsidian, should I create separate entries for verbs that change meaning significantly when used in different voices or aspects?

𝚏𝙲𝚚 (no aspect) = to have
𝚜𝚐 𝚏𝙲𝚚 (inchoative) = to find/obtain
𝚏𝚋 𝚏𝙲𝚚 (cessative) = to lose

𝚜𝙱𝚛 (active/transitive) to remove
𝚛𝚙 𝚜𝙱𝚛 (reflexive) to leave

etc.

you should have separate entries if the grammatical voices/aspects are derivational, but not if they're inflectional.

You could also do something like this:
https://www.gilgamesh.ch/bvc/bvc.html?& ... r%C4%81sum
(that is, a "main" or "base" entry and a list of all its major derivations in their citation forms and the meanings of those derivations)

[lurker]

What strategies are there other than an article for “this/that” or “here/there”?

Commonthroat uses noun inflections to indicate demonstratives

𝚜𝙵𝚜𝙵𝙼𝚛 = this friend
𝚜𝙵𝚜𝙵𝚚𝙽 = that friend
𝚜𝙵𝚜𝙵𝚙 = yonder friend

[lurker]

you should have separate entries if the grammatical voices/aspects are derivational, but not if they're inflectional.

As it stands the voices are probably "inflectional" as the coverbs 𝚛𝚓, 𝚙𝚛, etc can't stand on their own. The aspectual coverbs, however, all have simple meanings and can stand on their own in addition to their use as auxiliaries.

𝚜𝚐 = "to start/begin" (inchoative aspect)
𝚏𝚋 = "to cease/halt" (cessative aspect)
𝚋𝚏 = "to finish" (completative aspect)
𝙶𝙹𝚚 = "to persist/continue" (superfective/repetitive aspect)
𝙻𝚖𝚚 = "to repair" (prospective aspect [compare SAmE "fixing to..."])

They haven't bleached completely into simple particles and at least 𝙻𝚖𝚚 has a productive derivation 𝙻𝚖𝚚𝚖𝚐 "squire/mechanic", but their use as aspect coverbs is predictable and ubiquitous. It's possible that they function like "to have" in English, able to serve a more semantically clear role "to own/possess" as well as a an auxiliary "I have eaten."