Copyrighting conlangs

[lurker]

I was asked by a friend of mine whether people make languages for the express purpose of allowing others' fictional works to feature them at a future time, an idea I'm guessing he got from the open source software model, where code is made freely available for others to use for any purpose.

I told him that I wasn't aware of such a thing, and clarified that movie and TV production teams that want a conlang will hire a linguist to make a bespoke language based on the established setting (Klingon, Atlantian, Na'vi, etc), adding that a language is wedded to the culture that speaks it, and picking a generic premade conlang with no established (fictional) speakers would be a bad idea.

That got me thinking about conlangs as intellectual property. I admittedly don't know much about this aspect of the hobby, other than issues surrounding Loglan and Lojban.

I'm curious what others have to say on the topic.

[Knox Adjacent]

You can't copyright a language, only creative works made in it.

[Khemehekis]

We had a discussion on this some years back:

https://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=300773

[lsd]

it's true, conlangs are not copyrightable, crazy isn't it....

[Khemehekis]

Shesowa, is ien e glasunda yakh famoi arditz mai lavambio na wan zash maikros o kahupha o inshes na pap muyas az mehim Kankonik.
in_actuality 1s would BE honored if someone author own work of 3s APPOS movie or book or single of pop etc. REL use Kankonian
In actuality, I'd be honored if someone wrote his or her own work -- a movie, book, pop single, etc. -- that used Kankonian.

Mui is os anditzas Marc Okrand boirias.
and 1s NEG observe-PRS Matc Okrand sue-PRS
And I don't see Marc Okrand suing.

[Reyzadren]

Same, anyone can use my conlang and is welcome to do so. It is versatile enough to be ported over to other settings/media.

Also, imo it's ridiculous to assume that only 1 culture can speak a particular generic conlang. Mine does, but I've stated that there are also other people in said world that do, similar to natlangs.

[Khemehekis]

Same, anyone can use my conlang and is welcome to do so. It is versatile enough to be ported over to other settings/media.

Also, imo it's ridiculous to assume that only 1 culture can speak a particular generic conlang. Mine does, but I've stated that there are also other people in said world that do, similar to natlangs.

I know what you're saying. Kankonian began its life on the planet as the Tze*ethik language of the people of the desert of Hegheos, but today it rules the planet the same way English rules Planet Earth. Kankonian was named after the planet of Kankonia, which word (Kankonia) came into popular use when Kankonians began thinking of their planet as one country. It comes from a phrase, "kan kon ya", from some language of the Tzelshas Islands, that meant "our place in space" (and I've decided that kan, space, and kon, place, are cognate).

[DV82LECM]

The Library of Babel might have something to say on this...as in, it does, literally, about conceivably anything. Kankonian already exists there; your orthography meets the criteria, so it would be there. Now, to your point, does a repository of all capable human word count as something which can, as itself, be a copyright infringement?

[lsd]

Now, to your point, does a repository of all capable human word count as something which can, as itself, be a copyright infringement?

without the consent of the authors, for sure,
only Pierre Ménard believes otherwise...





as for me, I find it iniquitous for conlanging that such hard work does not deserve salary...

I can fully understand the author's desire to leave access free so that the cohort of speakers can grow and multiply...
but it must remain a choice, and copyright law is perfectly flawed here,
in the sense that it would only protect material achievements in conlang but not conlang, which is immaterial by nature...

however, it must be recognized that no conlang has a particularly value that merits protection against copying...
and to date, no conlang has been copied to the point of causing harm to its author...

but I'd be curious to see the piracy of a language linked to a major entertainment company,
and a procedure that would see it through to the end - often the sharing of the spoils is the rule -
to see the evolution or confirmation of the law...

[WeepingElf]

Yes, conlangs can't be copyrighted, only texts written in or about conlangs. Yet, when my Elvenpath project ceased to be a Tolkien fan-fiction endeavour, I felt that having my Elves speak Tolkien's languages felt like intellectual theft for me, which was one (but not the only) reason why I decided to make my own conlangs for them.

[Khemehekis]

Yes, conlangs can't be copyrighted, only texts written in or about conlangs. Yet, when my Elvenpath project ceased to be a Tolkien fan-fiction endeavour, I felt that having my Elves speak Tolkien's languages felt like intellectual theft for me, which was one (but not the only) reason why I decided to make my own conlangs for them.

Wait, you mean the Elvenpath started out as Tolkien fanfiction? I was under the impression that it had always been based on the idea of the Elves being the indigenous (human) people of the British Isles.

[WeepingElf]

Yes, conlangs can't be copyrighted, only texts written in or about conlangs. Yet, when my Elvenpath project ceased to be a Tolkien fan-fiction endeavour, I felt that having my Elves speak Tolkien's languages felt like intellectual theft for me, which was one (but not the only) reason why I decided to make my own conlangs for them.

Wait, you mean the Elvenpath started out as Tolkien fanfiction? I was under the impression that it had always been based on the idea of the Elves being the indigenous (human) people of the British Isles.

Yes - it began when I had read this Tolkien fan fiction story, which made me wonder what language those Elves would speak, and I created Nur-ellen. Soon, however, I decided that my Elves wouldn't be the same people as Tolkien's Elves but the human Elves of Britain they are now. They were even briefly considered for inclusion in Ill Bethisad, but I quickly felt that that was the wrong place for me and my Elves: I felt like the only progressive mind among a bunch of conservatives, and some members failed to take me and my contribution seriously, and therefore I quit, removing the Elves from it. (At that time, I wasn't linguistically sophisticated enough to notice that most of Ill Bethisad's conlangs had major issues - and Nur-ellen wasn't a particularly good conlang either.) And thus the Elvenpath became detached from Tolkien's legendarium, and using Tolkien's languages felt more and more like intellectual theft; also, I had my own ideas about the origin and typology of the Elven languages, and thus I tossed Nur-ellen and began making my own Elven languages independent from Tolkien's languages.

[Khemehekis]

Wow, I never heard the story behind it. I remember seeing the name "Nur-Ellen" before, but I didn't know what it was.

[Porphyrogenitos]

I think it makes sense that conlangs can't be copyrighted. After all, natural languages certainly cannot be copyrighted, and it would not make sense for them to be copyrightable. A conlang is essentially a description of something that could be a real-life language, if only someone took it upon themselves to learn it and establish a community of speakers.

[Ahzoh]

Other people using my conlang for their works would make sense from a lore-internal standpoint since it's a language spoken both by inter/extradimensional travelers and their ancestral people (time shenanigans are involved).

[Man in Space]

Other people using my conlang for their works would make sense from a lore-internal standpoint since it's a language spoken both by inter/extradimensional travelers and their ancestral people (time shenanigans are involved).

The original script for O was one you made (and allowed me to use with your explicit permission). Though I’ve since come not to use it since metafictionally it exists and so would prove a continuity snarl.

Incidentally, scripts aren’t copyrightable. The guy who made D’Ni from Myst learned that officially.

[lsd]

Incidentally, scripts aren’t copyrightable. The guy who made D’Ni from Myst learned that officially.

it's the same analogy with a natural language that has been rejected...

just as a language cannot be protected, neither can a script, only the material realization of this script is protectable,
a font for example can be,
possibly a combination of signs that makes a text can be,
not the system...

it will be a matter of proving that a text using these characters has copied
the form (the font) or the fact (the text),
but never the language or the writing system...

is that a conlang is both a work of the mind and a real thing but immaterial, and that as such it is free of copyright...
is that a conlang is recognized neither as a work of art nor as a text... but as something else...

as if the experience and genius of the artist or craftsman put into a system and could be transmitted...
I can only think of the work and genius of a scientist who resembles them,
but who is also the fruit of a conlang, that of mathematics...

that's what makes this activity so special and that you're ready to spend a lifetime on it,
there's no other pure idea that requires so much work and that is real before any material realization...