(C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

[WeepingElf]

I just thought of the term Feudalkommunismus (feudal communism) and that it would be a nice idea for conworlding. How could such a system look like?

Perhaps like this (which I decided to adopt, perhaps with some modification, for my Elves)?

[LinguoFranco]

I've been developing a fantasy world that I want some input with.

The basic idea is there are (at least for now) two races: humans and elves. The elves are capable of spellcasting through channel their own innate magic, leading to them developing a society based around magic.

Humans, on the other hand, are less skilled in magic, at least in the usual sense. They can't directly cast spells themselves, due since they cannot tap into mana. However, they can get around this through other ways like alchemy (combining magical ingredients to craft potions), enchanting items and conjuring familiars to cast spells for them.

Their lack of an innate affinity for magic led humanity to develop along a more technological route. They have a Clockpunk tech level.

I know you can technically do whatever you want in worldbuilding, but in your personal opinion, do you think having high fantasy tropes like elves and magic would be jarring in a Clockpunk world?

[WeepingElf]

I see no problems with that. In fact, I never understood why in a fantasy world with magic, technology should be limited to a medieval level. I once drafted a fantasy world with modern technology. In that world, magic did not prevent the development of technology and was eventually outstripped by it, because magic was expensive and could not be mass-produced. So, for instance, only few people could have a callstone (a magical communication gadget), but everybody could have a telephone. Technology could do much of what magic could do but much cheaper, and most magical items were kept in museums.

[Dormouse559]

I wonder whether magic wouldn't interfere with scientific development. Unless there's a reliable way of either blocking out magic or measuring its influence, people might have difficulty getting an understanding of natural laws, especially conservation of mass and energy. This depends on the particulars of the magic, of course, but if it becomes too compatible with science, you might be in "any sufficiently advanced technology" territory.

But as far as the clockpunk with elves idea, it sounds fine to me. I think it's interesting to put more than one magic system into a world to see how they interact. One example that comes to mind is the "Circle of Magic" series by Tamora Pierce. The distinction wasn't between species in that case, but between an innate kind of magic and a kind that could be learned.

[Creyeditor]

I just thought of the term Feudalkommunismus (feudal communism) and that it would be a nice idea for conworlding. How could such a system look like?

Perhaps like this (which I decided to adopt, perhaps with some modification, for my Elves)?

Not really what I imagined but a good source of inspiration. I might post something on it in the random idea thread.

[WeepingElf]

I wonder whether magic wouldn't interfere with scientific development. Unless there's a reliable way of either blocking out magic or measuring its influence, people might have difficulty getting an understanding of natural laws, especially conservation of mass and energy. This depends on the particulars of the magic, of course, but if it becomes too compatible with science, you might be in "any sufficiently advanced technology" territory.

Yes, it depends on the kind of magic. In my world draft, magic was not of the "can do everything" kind. It was about manipulating probabilities. You couldn't do things that were impossible otherwise, only things that were possible but unlikely. Things like having a lightning bolt strike a particular building during a thunderstorm - the less likely the event, the harder to achieve by magic. And you could not break natural laws such as conservation of mass and energy. In theory, such kind of magic could exist in our world because what it could do, could just as well happen by accident. Yet, if it exists in our world, it is not a significant force, so I decided to give it up. I eventually decided that this is how the ancient Elves believed how magic worked, but there is no evidence that it actually works.

[HolyHandGrenade!]

Honestly, another trope I think is unrealistic is that magic never improves, and in fact in some stories old magic is better. Like, why wouldn’t we develop better and better methods to do magic over time? To me it seems like it would just be another branch of scientific discovery. I would love to see a fantasy story where they’re like “Yeah, we found this 5,000 year old sword that’s said to have been able to destroy entire cities. Turns out that for the past 200 years every major city has had advanced enough ward magic that it’s basically a toy now.”

[sangi39]

I just thought of the term Feudalkommunismus (feudal communism) and that it would be a nice idea for conworlding. How could such a system look like?

I suppose it would depend on what you mean, exactly, by "feudal communism"

The only thing I could think of is basically that while the land (probably quite isolated) as per the law belongs to some feudal land-owner, the actual day-to-day running of the area would be effectively able to run according the various communist principles (classless, stateless, moneyless, common ownership of the means of production, redistribution of resources based on need, the decommodification of necessities, abolition of private property, etc.) only due to the absence of that land-owner, or possibly that the land-owner does have some vague presence in the area, but with minimal contact, and the people living there pay "rent" in the form of some form of good/produce, as opposed to money (and the land-owner just happens to be happy leaving them to it, so long as the good/produce comes in)

The only other time I've seen "feudal communism" used is as a negative thing thrown at the socioeconomic structure of the Democratic People's Republic of China, which essentially boils down to (in the arguments made) "the state owns the land and resources, the workers do what they're told", which, if we're looking at that as a serious point, is basically just, you know, feudalism (IIRC Ancient Egypt, at least at some points, was highly centralised and bureaucratic, with heavy control of land, resources, distribution, and movement, but no-one calls Ancient Egypt's system "feudal communism")

So, yeah, beyond "basically communists living in a some fairly isolated region, technically owned by a feudal land-owner, but run as if it were a communist society, with minimal contact between the two", I'm not completely sure the two actually can work together without muddying terminology

[Creyeditor]

Ah, thank you. Yes, the second thing is what I think is closer to what I thought of. The first thing seems to be more realistic though, as their was at least some kind of common land in feudalist systems.

[Khemehekis]

I've been developing a fantasy world that I want some input with.

The basic idea is there are (at least for now) two races: humans and elves. The elves are capable of spellcasting through channel their own innate magic, leading to them developing a society based around magic.

Humans, on the other hand, are less skilled in magic, at least in the usual sense. They can't directly cast spells themselves, due since they cannot tap into mana. However, they can get around this through other ways like alchemy (combining magical ingredients to craft potions), enchanting items and conjuring familiars to cast spells for them.

Their lack of an innate affinity for magic led humanity to develop along a more technological route. They have a Clockpunk tech level.

I know you can technically do whatever you want in worldbuilding, but in your personal opinion, do you think having high fantasy tropes like elves and magic would be jarring in a Clockpunk world?

I remember when back in our Damta thread we were discussing high fantasy conworlds with magic, and Nachtuil said:

I can tolerate elves and such but I'm really not keen on high magic at all. haha I agree that low magic or no magic worlds are way more fun. Maybe because it is easier to conceptualise the behaviour and don't need to suspend disbelief all the time that major factors of the world would be identical to our historical one despite the existence of powerful magic that would supersede a great deal of historical technology etc.

[sangi39]

Ah, thank you. Yes, the second thing is what I think is closer to what I thought of. The first thing seems to be more realistic though, as their was at least some kind of common land in feudalist systems.

I think that might just be something like, for example, manorialism/feudalism in England and things like common land and the open-field system, before enclosure really started kicking in, and that all fits pretty much within feudalism (in a broad sense, I guess, since it had different specific characteristics from region to region). Common land, from what I can remember, was still land that was granted by the monarch to some lord, which was then divided up in different ways (enclosed agricultural land, common land, woodland, etc.) which granted different rights to the various kinds of tenants under the lord (serf, commoner, and so on). I think the lord did also have some responsibilities to tenants, like no absolute right to evict without good reason (I think Salmoneus once wrote a good post on homelessness under feudalism in England, but can't remember where off the top of my head). These rights and responsibilities were then negotiated in special courts, and lasted for some set lease period, or passed down over generations, which I would assume made changing the way some land was used difficult (like you could just cut down woodland as a lord if it infringed upon the tenants existing rights to its use), which is probably one of the reasons enclosure really kicked off during the years of and following the Black Death

But yeah, "common land" under feudalism was basically more like an area of land that was allocated, in which there was the right of a certain kind of feudal tenant to use that land collectively for a specific purpose (and with other associated rights), held under the control of a lord, granted that land by the monarch, rather than "land anyone could use for whatever"

[Khemehekis]

(I think Salmoneus once wrote a good post on homelessness under feudalism in England, but can't remember where off the top of my head).

This?

https://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=313081#p313081

[sangi39]

(I think Salmoneus once wrote a good post on homelessness under feudalism in England, but can't remember where off the top of my head).

This?

https://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=313081#p313081

Khemehekis to the rescue! That was the exact post I was thinking of

[Khemehekis]

(I think Salmoneus once wrote a good post on homelessness under feudalism in England, but can't remember where off the top of my head).

This?

https://cbbforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=313081#p313081

Khemehekis to the rescue! That was the exact post I was thinking of

I just remembered the post discussed vagrancy laws, so I searched for the word "vagrancy", and there it was!

[LinguoFranco]

I've been developing a fantasy world that I want some input with.

The basic idea is there are (at least for now) two races: humans and elves. The elves are capable of spellcasting through channel their own innate magic, leading to them developing a society based around magic.

Humans, on the other hand, are less skilled in magic, at least in the usual sense. They can't directly cast spells themselves, due since they cannot tap into mana. However, they can get around this through other ways like alchemy (combining magical ingredients to craft potions), enchanting items and conjuring familiars to cast spells for them.

Their lack of an innate affinity for magic led humanity to develop along a more technological route. They have a Clockpunk tech level.

I know you can technically do whatever you want in worldbuilding, but in your personal opinion, do you think having high fantasy tropes like elves and magic would be jarring in a Clockpunk world?

I remember when back in our Damta thread we were discussing high fantasy conworlds with magic, and Nachtuil said:

I can tolerate elves and such but I'm really not keen on high magic at all. haha I agree that low magic or no magic worlds are way more fun. Maybe because it is easier to conceptualise the behaviour and don't need to suspend disbelief all the time that major factors of the world would be identical to our historical one despite the existence of powerful magic that would supersede a great deal of historical technology etc.

I think you could argue that technology is a way to conquer magic. That is, humans developed technology as a counter to Magic, hence the trope of fairies being weak to iron. I could see this being cranked up to eleven where a clockpunk/steampunk society as a metaphor humanity disrupting the magical nature of the world and supplanting elves as the dominant species.

Yeah, that's something I forgot to mention: despite the elves being a high magical race, they are still vulnerable to cold iron.

[Glenn]

I've been developing a fantasy world that I want some input with.

The basic idea is there are (at least for now) two races: humans and elves. The elves are capable of spellcasting through channel their own innate magic, leading to them developing a society based around magic.

Humans, on the other hand, are less skilled in magic, at least in the usual sense. They can't directly cast spells themselves, due since they cannot tap into mana. However, they can get around this through other ways like alchemy (combining magical ingredients to craft potions), enchanting items and conjuring familiars to cast spells for them.

Their lack of an innate affinity for magic led humanity to develop along a more technological route. They have a Clockpunk tech level.

I think that this idea of a contrast between innate and learned forms of magic is one that a few other creators have played with as well. One example that comes to mind is the webcomic Blindsprings, which ran from 2013 to 2019 but stopped abruptly in mid-story due to the creator's medical issues. That world included one form of magic based on a combination of innate magical powers used by people born with them and agreements made with spirits, and a second form of "academic" magic based on the use of magical tools, which anyone could learn, and which had led to magic-powered equivalents of Earthly technology (electric lights, automobiles). The country that was the focus of the action was governed by the academic magicians, while those with innate magic were discriminated against and their powers suppressed. As the story continued, however, it was revealed that that rule of the academicians had been the result of an earlier revolution, that the previous rulers had used their own innate magic to rule, and that most other countries in the world were still ruled by innate magicians - which did not necessarily justify the academicians' discrimination, but did make the world more morally ambiguous.

[LinguoFranco]

I've been developing a fantasy world that I want some input with.

The basic idea is there are (at least for now) two races: humans and elves. The elves are capable of spellcasting through channel their own innate magic, leading to them developing a society based around magic.

Humans, on the other hand, are less skilled in magic, at least in the usual sense. They can't directly cast spells themselves, due since they cannot tap into mana. However, they can get around this through other ways like alchemy (combining magical ingredients to craft potions), enchanting items and conjuring familiars to cast spells for them.

Their lack of an innate affinity for magic led humanity to develop along a more technological route. They have a Clockpunk tech level.

I think that this idea of a contrast between innate and learned forms of magic is one that a few other creators have played with as well. One example that comes to mind is the webcomic Blindsprings, which ran from 2013 to 2019 but stopped abruptly in mid-story due to the creator's medical issues. That world included one form of magic based on a combination of innate magical powers used by people born with them and agreements made with spirits, and a second form of "academic" magic based on the use of magical tools, which anyone could learn, and which had led to magic-powered equivalents of Earthly technology (electric lights, automobiles). The country that was the focus of the action was governed by the academic magicians, while those with innate magic were discriminated against and their powers suppressed. As the story continued, however, it was revealed that that rule of the academicians had been the result of an earlier revolution, that the previous rulers had used their own innate magic to rule, and that most other countries in the world were still ruled by innate magicians - which did not necessarily justify the academicians' discrimination, but did make the world more morally ambiguous.

Is the story cancelled, or is it more of an indefinite hiatus?

[sangi39]

I've been developing a fantasy world that I want some input with.

The basic idea is there are (at least for now) two races: humans and elves. The elves are capable of spellcasting through channel their own innate magic, leading to them developing a society based around magic.

Humans, on the other hand, are less skilled in magic, at least in the usual sense. They can't directly cast spells themselves, due since they cannot tap into mana. However, they can get around this through other ways like alchemy (combining magical ingredients to craft potions), enchanting items and conjuring familiars to cast spells for them.

Their lack of an innate affinity for magic led humanity to develop along a more technological route. They have a Clockpunk tech level.

I think that this idea of a contrast between innate and learned forms of magic is one that a few other creators have played with as well. One example that comes to mind is the webcomic Blindsprings, which ran from 2013 to 2019 but stopped abruptly in mid-story due to the creator's medical issues. That world included one form of magic based on a combination of innate magical powers used by people born with them and agreements made with spirits, and a second form of "academic" magic based on the use of magical tools, which anyone could learn, and which had led to magic-powered equivalents of Earthly technology (electric lights, automobiles). The country that was the focus of the action was governed by the academic magicians, while those with innate magic were discriminated against and their powers suppressed. As the story continued, however, it was revealed that that rule of the academicians had been the result of an earlier revolution, that the previous rulers had used their own innate magic to rule, and that most other countries in the world were still ruled by innate magicians - which did not necessarily justify the academicians' discrimination, but did make the world more morally ambiguous.

Is the story cancelled, or is it more of an indefinite hiatus?

"The comic went on hiatus in August 2019 till April 2023. As of now the series is ongoing"

Apparently it's back up and running

[Dormouse559]

Is the story cancelled, or is it more of an indefinite hiatus?

"The comic went on hiatus in August 2019 till April 2023. As of now the series is ongoing"

Apparently it's back up and running

Reviewing the creator's Twitter, they tried to restart updates a few years ago, but they never got around to it due to sickness and loss of inspiration. The "I'm back" page from 2022 is still the most recent comic update.

"Blindsprings" is a real blast from the past for me. It was on my regular rotation years ago, back when I was reading a bunch of webcomics. I'd forgotten how the magic systems worked.