Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

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DanH34
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Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by DanH34 »

How do your natlangs/conlangs deal with them? Feel free to play fast-and-loose with the vocabulary if you like (it's only fair given my track-record).

:eng:
1) The man eats.
2) The woman is seen.
3) The man eats the food.
4) The food is seen by the woman.

:con: Zidhgebzhail - Transitivity marked on the noun, tripartite morphosyntax, passive mood requires intransitive verbs, tracks natural gender (masculine and neuter are not distinguished) but not animacy on nouns.

1) oz Entan.
oz-Ø Ø-Enta-n
man-ABS.SG.M PRS-eat-SIMPLE
Man eats/is eating.

2) aza har-Ain.
az-Ø-a har-Ø-Ai-n
woman-ABS-SG.F PASSIVE-PRS-see-SIMPLE
Woman is [being] seen.

3) ozil nentef Entan.
oz-il nent-ef Ø-Enta-n
man-ERG.SG.M.TOP food-ACC.SG.M.FOC PRS-see-SIMPLE
Man sees food.

4) nentef azila Entan.
nent-ef az-il-a Ø-Enta-n
food-ACC.SG.M.TOP woman-ERG-SG.F.FOC PRS-eat-SIMPLE
Food, woman eats [it].
Life's a bitch, then you die.

Zidhgebzhail Orthography
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MrKrov
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by MrKrov »

:con: Epaspak:
1. tokóro Ø-Ø-ma. OR tokóro Ø-u-ma.
man 3SA-3SP-eat. OR man 3SA-INDEF.P-eat.
The man eats.

2. upási Ø-Ø-páku. OR upási e-Ø-páku.
woman 3SA-3SP-see. OR woman INDEF.A-3SP-see.
The woman is seen.

3. tokóro mar Ø-Ø-ma.
man food 3SA-3SP-eat
The man eats the food.

4. upási mat=ta Ø-Ø-páku.
woman food=FOC 3SA-3SP-see.
The food is seen by the woman.

The difference between the two versions for the first two sentences is whether the missing patient or agent has been previously explicitly mentioned or is deducible from discourse (with a corresponding lack of indefinite prefix) or not (with a corresponding indefinite prefix).
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by H.Á. »

:con: Naeniusk

Pak vøgok.
[pʰɑk ʋœ̀.jʊk]
man-ABS eat-SG-3
pak-0 voego-0-k

= The man eats.

Pómja rasúdag.
[pʰɔ̀ʊ̯m.jɐ ɾæ̀.sʊː.dɑ́]
see.INF-AP woman-CAUS
póm-ja rasu-dag

= The woman is seen.

Pakog liuhtamu vøgo iþtar.
[pʰɑ̀.kʊ lɨ̀.ʰta.mú ʋœ̀.jʊ iθ.tɐɾ]
man-ERG food-ACC PRS.eat.INF AUX.(3.NONAB*.SG.ERG-3.IO.NONAB*.SG)
pak-og liuhtame-u voego-0-k

= The man eats the food.

Rasú pómjak liuhtamedag.
[ɾæ̀.sʊː pʰɔ̀ʊ̯m.jɐk lɨ̀.ʰta.mɪ.dɑ́]
woman-ABS see-AP-SG-3 food-CAUS
rasu-0 póm-ja-0-k liuhtame-dag

= The food is seen by the woman.

*non-abstract
hmeniajúsoin ázujum
onomatopoesia-INSTR potato

[laɪ̯f ɪz ɒːl̴ əˈbɐʊ̯t faɪ̯ndɪŋ pʰiːpl̩ wɪð ðə sɛɪ̯m ˈmɛn.təl dɪsˈɔː.də æz juː]
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by nzk13 »

:con: Dimath

Itha et.
[ˈiθa ˈɛt]
man eat
= The man eats.

That na-lin
[ˈθat naˈlin]
woman PASSIVE-see
= The woman is seen.

Itha et et-ath-in.
[ˈiθa ɛt ˈɛtaθin]
man eat eat-PassiveNMNLZ (creats object noun of verb)-ACC
= The man eats the food.

Et-ath na-lin that-ab.
[ˈɛtaθ naˈlin ˈθatab]
eat-PassiveNMNLZ PASSIVE-see woman-INST
= The food is seen by the woman.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by thetha »

:con: Taahu is quite simplistic for these types of things:
(1)
Yuska mapáyiʔmé
man ANIM=eat.NPST
The man eats.
(2)
Tsáa shááhé mudégmé
one woman ANIM=see.NPST
The woman is seen.

There's no need to translate the other examples, as they pattern morphologically exactly the same as (2). Animacy marking is obligatory for all 3rd person arguments, and animates generally only include people, decently sized animals, and gods and spirits. Things like beetles, ticks, plankton, bacteria, etc. are grammatically inanimate. In a metaphorical sort of way they're grouped in a kind of 'particles' category, with sand and atoms and stuff.

Oh, if it wasn't clear, there's no passive. 'one' has to be used as a dummy subject.
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Click
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Click »

:con: Kyekki

1) Nok úre.
[ˈnɔ̄k ˈɦúɾe]
nok-ø úre-ø-ø
man-NOM eat-3SG-PRS

The man eats.

2) Skóripve.
[ˈskóɾepʋe]
skóri-ø-ø-pvé
see-3SG-PRS-woman

The woman is seen.

3) Nok úreřotše.
[ˈnɔ̄k ˈɦúɾeʁɔtʃe]
nok-ø úre-ø›ø-ø-řotše
man-NOM eat-3SG3SG-PRS-food

The man eats the food.

4) Vo pvé skóriřotše.
[ˈvō ˈpʋé ˈskóɾiʁɔtʃe]
vo pvé-ø skóri-ø›ø-ø-řotše
PASS woman-NOM see-3SG3SG-PRS-food

The food is seen by the woman.
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Dormouse559
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Dormouse559 »

:con: Sikmutá

1) Losn tanut.
[ˈlɑ.zn̩ ˈtɛ.nut]
los-n tan-u-t
man-ABS eat-INTR-STAT
The man eats.

2)

Pnasn smomut.
[ˈpnɛ.zn̩ ˈsmɒ.mut]
pnas-n s<m>om-u-t
woman-ABS see<MID>-INTR-STAT

or

Pnas so ta sont.
[ˈpnɛs sɑ tæ ˈsɔnt]
pnas so ta som-ø-t
woman TOP 4.ERG see-TR-STAT

The woman is seen.

3) Los suakn tant.
[ˈlɑs ˈswœ.gn̩ ˈtent]
los-ø suak-n tan-ø-t
man-ERG food-ABS eat-TR-STAT
The man eats the food.

4) Suak so pnas sont.
[ˈswœk sɑ ˈpnɛs ˈsɔnt]
suak so pnas-ø som-ø-t
food TOP woman-ERG see-TR-STAT
The food is seen by the woman.
Erboinq
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Erboinq »

First time doing one of these... :mrgreen:

:con: Kólos

1. Armisulán kalos nitano.
[armizu'la:n 'kalos 'nitano]
armis-ul-án kal-Ø-os nit-an-o.
eat-IND-3SG man-NOM-DEF thing-ACC-INDEF
The man eats (something).

2. Korénoselín sanes.
[kore:noze'li:n 'sanes]
kor-énos-el-ín san-Ø-es
PAS-see-IND-3SG woman-NOM-DEF
The woman is seen

3. Armisulán kalos pentanos.
[armizu'la:n 'kalos 'pentanos]
armis-ul-án kal-Ø-os pent-an-os.
eat-IND-3SG man-NOM-DEF food-ACC-DEF.
The man eats the food.

4. Korénosulán pentos saneces.
[kor:enozu'la:n 'pentos 'saneðes]
kor-énos-ul-lán pent-Ø-os san-ec-es
PAS-see-IND-3SG food-NOM-DEF woman-INST-DEF
The food is seen by the woman.

Nothing that really stands out, apart from the fact that "to eat" is a transitive verb and therefore requires a object in the first sentence.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by PTSnoop »

:con: Necthiøth - free word order, no real case marking. In most cases, the animacy hierarchy tells you who's doing what to whom.

1) Simple enough.

Snau tuazaranoph.
[ snaw twáʃaʁanopʰ ]
nsau tuazar-no-ph
male eat-3SG-GOOD

The man eats.

2) Two options here, depending on whether the woman's being seen by multiple people or just one person. Necthiøth doesn't have a proper passive, the agent of the sentence still hangs around in the person-marking on the verb.

Phia nømán.
[ pʰjá nømán ]
phia nø-má-n
woman see-3PL-BAD

The woman is seen by them.

In this example, the person-marking is assumed to refer to a dropped pronoun, which would have higher animacy than the woman. So it's clear that the woman is the patient of this sentence.

Phiatua nølın.
[ pʰjátwa nǿlɨn ]
phia-tua nø-no-n
woman-INV see-3SG-BAD

The woman is seen by him/her.

In this example, without the inverse marker, it would be assumed that the person-marking refers to the woman herself - "the woman sees". So an inverse marker is tagged onto the noun to make it clear that the woman's the patient, not the agent.

(In theory, you could just resurrect the dropped pronoun -

Phia nølın fa.
[ pʰja nǿlɨn fa ]
phia nø-no-n fa
woman see-3SG-BAD 3SG

?The woman is seen by him/her

- and make it perfectly clear that the person-marking refers to the higher-animacy pronoun. But to a native Necthiøth speaker, this would come across as quite a clunky way of phrasing things.)

3) This one's nice and simple - men are higher animacy than food.

Snau tuazaranoph flʉnau.
[ snaw twáʃaʁanopʰ flýnaw ]
nsau tuazar-no-ph flʉnau
male eat-3SG-GOOD food

The man eats the food.

4) The swapped word order brings the food forward to be the topic of the sentence, but doesn't affect the underlying animacy structure.

Flʉnau nølın phia.
[ flýnáw nǿlɨn pʰja ]
flʉnau nø-no-n phia
food see-3SG-BAD woman

The food is seen by the woman.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by zyx3166 »

Roguel:
1)Yero jentek.
man eat-3SG
The man eats.
2)Omon tenpetek.
woman see-PASS-3SG
The woman is seen.
3)Yero jentecjentek.
man food-eat-3SG
The man eats the food.
4)Jentec omonta tenpetek.
food woman-ACC food-eat-3SG
The food is seen by the woman.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Sangfroidish »

Ai hen pane thó.
[ɑj hɛn ˈpɑn.ɜ θɔː]
ART.DEF.AN man eat null.argument.ACC
The man eats.

Thé olle ai heus.
[θɛː ˈɔlːɜ ɑj hɛws]
null.argument see ART.DEF.An woman-ACC
The woman is seen.

Ai hen pane ei pánisso.
ɑj hɛn ˈpɑn.ɜ ɛj ˈpɑːn.ɪsːɒ
ART.DEF.AN man eat ART.DEF.IN food-ACC
The man eats the food.

Ei pánisso olle ai heu.
ɛj ˈpɑːn.ɪsːɒ ˈɔlːɜ ɑj hɛw
ART.DEF.IN food-ACC see ART.DEF.An woman
The food is seen by the woman.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Alessio »

:ita: Italiano
1) L'uomo mangia.
/'lwɔːmo 'mandʒa/
DET.M.S man eat.3SG

2) La donna è/viene vista.
/la 'dɔnna ε or 'vjεːne 'vista/
DET.F.S. woman be.3SG or come.3SG see.PAST_PART.F.S

3) L'uomo mangia il cibo.
/'lwɔːmo 'mandʒa il 'tʃiːbo/
DET.M.S man eat.3SG DET.M.S food

4) Il cibo è/viene visto dalla donna.
/il 'tʃiːbo ε or vjεːne 'visto 'dalla 'dɔnna/
DET.M.S food be.3SG or come.3SG see.PAST_PART.M.S. AGENT.DET.F.S woman
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by thetha »

:nga: Yoruba

1) The man eats.
Ọkùnrin jẹun.
man eat.INTRANS

2) The woman is seen.
Obìnrin ni a rí i.
woman FOC 1P see=3PAT

3) The man eats the food.
Ọkùnrin jẹ oúnjẹ.
man eat food

4) The food is seen by the woman.
Obìnrin ni ó rí oúnjẹ.
woman FOC 3S see food

Yoruba has no passive voice at all, so the only difference here is that the woman is the 'focal point' of the sentence. Also, the first person plural is the 'generic' pronoun, corresponding to 'one' in English. So, a literal translation of sentence (2) would be something like, "The woman is the one that we see her".

There's a certain class of verbs that have transitive and intransitive versions, and 'eat' just happens to be one of them. The intransitive versions usually derive from the original verb coupled with an eclipsed, generic object (cf. ka vs. ka ìwé -> kàwé ; read vs. read a book). In this case the generic is ohun 'thing'
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Nortaneous »

Stealing the Yoruba passive construction for Gehui.

1) N|o mwoɕ !ar.
CLF man eat

2) N|o mwɛɛ lə n|wi luc.
CLF woman FOC CLF.PL see

3) N|o mwoɕ !ar n!aɣ ɭɔm.
CLF man eat CLF.PAUC food

4) N|o mwɛɛ lə n!aɣ ɭɔm luc.
CLF woman FOC CLF food see
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Andlat »

:con: Kwëpta

1. A úrire sangas.
A úrire sanga-s
DEF man eat-PRES

2. A inire ëas kútöbúgenen.
A inire ëa-s kútöbúgenen.
DEF woman be-PRES see.

3. A úrire sangas a finto.
DEF man eat-PRES DEF food.

4. A finto ëas kútöbúgenen pui a inire.
DEF food be-PRES see by DEF woman.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Shrdlu »

:swe:
1) The man eats.
Man-en ät-er
2) The woman is seen.
Kvinna-n är sedd.
3) The man eats the food.
Mann-en ät-er mat-en
4) The food is seen by the woman.
Mat-en är sedd av kvinna-n.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Znex »

:grc: Ancient Greek

1) The man eats
ἁνὴρ ἐσθίει.
h.an.ēr esthi.ei
DEF;NOM;M;SG.man.NOM;SG eat;PRS.3SG;ACT

2) The woman is seen
ἡ γυνὴ ὁρᾶται.
hē gun.ē horā.tai
DEF;NOM;F;SG woman.NOM.SG see;PRS.3SG;PASS

3) The man eats the food
ἁνὴρ ἐσθίει τὸ σιτίον.
h.an.ēr esthi.ei to siti.on
DEF;NOM;M;SG.man.NOM;SG eat;PRS.3SG;ACT DEF;ACC;N;SG food.ACC;SG

4) The food is seen by the woman
τὸ σιτίον ὁρᾶται ὑπὸ τῆς γυναικός.
to siti.on horā.tai hupo tē.s gun.aikos
DEF;NOM;N;SG food.NOM;SG see;PRS.3SG;PASS by DEF;F;SG.GEN woman.GEN;SG
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Systemzwang »

Shrdlu wrote::swe:
1) The man eats.
Man-en ät-er
2) The woman is seen.
Kvinna-n är sedd.
3) The man eats the food.
Mann-en ät-er mat-en
4) The food is seen by the woman.
Mat-en är sedd av kvinna-n.
är-passiv is not really smooth swedish. it sounds like someone who is incapable of keeping english interference out of their swedish would come up with.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Alomar »

:con: Mychai

1) The man eats
Adh thni
[að θni:]
Adh thni
man.NOM eat.PRS.IPFV

2) The woman is seen
Alav lé
['aˑ.lav leɪ]
Ala-v lé
woman-ACC see.PRS.IPFV

3) The man eats the food
Thnicav Adh thni
['θni.çav að θni:]
Thnic-av Adh thni
food-ACC man.NOM eat.PRS.IPFV


4) The food is seen by the woman
Thnicav Aladh lé
['θni.çav 'a.lað leɪ]
Thnic-av Ala-dh lé
food-ACC woman-INS see.PRS.IPFV

Oh, wow, it looks like there are way more dental fricatives there then typical for Mychai.
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Re: Transitivity, Case, Mood, Animacy, and Gender.

Post by Shrdlu »

Systemzwang wrote: är-passiv is not really smooth swedish. it sounds like someone who is incapable of keeping english interference out of their swedish would come up with.
That's the way I, as a native, have learnt to speak Swedish, so I dunno how it would be said otherwise. It only exists in that type of phrase,
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