Analysis Swap: Alushi

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Arayaz
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Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

I'm starting this now!

Background: Alushi is spoken by the Anamaþþakoyo, garden agriculturalists in a dense rainforest. They live in small villages of around 40 to 50 people, sharing a home and cultivating much of the surrounding area, while also spending time hunting and gathering. Every six or seven years or so, the village relocates.

The village you are visiting, Osahandraasha, is relatively small, but being located in a relatively northern area (closer to your research base) and having a reputation for peacefulness, it was the one selected for preliminary research on the Alushi language.




When you arrive at Osahandraasha, you are struck by the activity surrounding you. The human-empty nighttime rainforest that you experienced during your approach was far from quiet, of course, but it seemed at least to be still, for the most part ─ but now, bustling activity and friendly chatter surrounds you, which is doubtlessly only exacerbated by the arrival of foreigners ─ an exciting event!

Indeed, a small crowd has gathered around you. One person, a man round forty, steps forward and introduces himself as Suhakkan. Then he seems to recall that you want to hear about their language, and says, 1) "Ibiklu laap ukya Suhakkanan."

Edit: Added numbers.
Last edited by Arayaz on 10 May 2024 13:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Trailsend »

Ah! Um.

Ibiklu laap ukya...Trailsend...?
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Visions1 »

Whoa whoa, heh heh! I love how it sounds - but we're here to understand it, too. What does that mean?
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Trailsend »

Spoiler:
Let's see if he corrects me! I bet we can figure it out :D

The Suhakkan -> Suhakkanan change is interesting, wonder what that's about. Curious if copying his own statements back at him works, or if we have to speak differently to him than he does to us.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

Trailsend wrote: 09 May 2024 03:26 Ibiklu laap ukya...Trailsend...?
Suhakkan raises an eyebrow. 2) "Hamklu laap ota Trailsendan?" he asks. Then, after a pause, clarifies, "Do you want me to speak in Alushi and your language, or only one?"

Edit: Added numbers.
Last edited by Arayaz on 10 May 2024 13:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Trailsend »

Spoiler:
There's Trailsend -> Trailsendan!
Either is comfortable for me; we might cover ground faster if we can ask you questions in our language. But regardless, if what I'm saying in your language isn't correct, please tell me so, and tell me what I should say instead.

I point to myself.

Ibiklu laap ukya Trailsendan.

I point at Suhakkan.

Hamklu laap ota Suhakkanan.

I point over at Visions.

mmm-klu laap...mmmm...Visionsan.


Spoiler:
Some correspondences:

Ibiklu, "I"? "my"?
Hamklu, "you"? "your"?

That -klu might be doing something.

ukta
ota

Not sure what these are doing, but they seem like they go together.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

Trailsend wrote: 09 May 2024 03:37 Either is comfortable for me; we might cover ground faster if we can ask you questions in our language. But regardless, if what I'm saying in your language isn't correct, please tell me so, and tell me what I should say instead.
"Of course," he says, then, "Kahiþra."
Trailsend wrote: 09 May 2024 03:37 I point to myself.

Ibiklu laap ukya Trailsendan.

I point at Suhakkan.

Hamklu laap ota Suhakkanan.

I point over at Visions.

mmm-klu laap...mmmm...Visionsan.
Suhakkan rotates his head ninety degrees to the side, with his ear facing you, then back, then says, 3) "Koklu laap ota Visionsan, kahiþra."

Edit: Added numbers.
Last edited by Arayaz on 10 May 2024 13:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Trailsend »

Spoiler:
Huh! So we have:

Ibiklu, some kind of 1st person thing
Hamklu, some kind of 2nd person thing
Koklu, some kind of 3rd person thing

and

ukya
ota

I half expected there to be some third thing in the ukya/ota set, with Ibiklu pairing with ukya, Hamklu pairing with ota, and ??? pairing with Koklu. But Hamklu and Koklu both get ota, and only Ibiklu is different. Any guesses why? Maybe it really is just due to 1st/2nd/3rd person, but 2nd and 3rd happen to be the same.

Seems like "laap" is "name", probably?

Only the vaguest guess about what Kahiþra means, but it seems polite. I'm tempted to just start sprinkling it onto all the things I say XD
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Visions1 »

It is a pleasure to meet you and your village, Suhakkan.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

Visions1 wrote: 09 May 2024 04:02 It is a pleasure to meet you and your village, Suhakkan.
"Kahiþra; and a pleasure to meet you as well, Visions and Trailsend," he says.

Most of the crowd has by this point dispersed, but one woman has stayed behind with you. "4) Ukyaklu slaaha muryo?" she asks. "You ... want what?" You can tell she's not fluent in your language.

"This is my wife; her name is Suhakmay," says Suhakkan. "5) Ko taa ibiklu bishaa. 6) Koklu laap ota Suhakmayan."

Edit: Added numbers.
Last edited by Arayaz on 10 May 2024 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Visions1 »

What is your wife asking us?
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

Visions1 wrote: 09 May 2024 04:14 What is your wife asking us?
"If you want anything," says Suhakkan. "Do you? We have plenty."
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Visions1 »

Trailsend, what should we do?

That's very nice of you; Trailsend, what would you like?
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Trailsend »

Spoiler:
1) Ukyaklu slaaha muryo?
Do you want anything?

That's interesting. There's ukya again, but this time with the -klu ending. Suggests ibi/ham/ko and ukya/ota are in the same morphosyntactic category? Feels surprising, Ibi/ham/ko seem like nouns/pronouns, but it felt like ukya/ota were the verbs in the laap sentences. Dunno what to do with that yet, but at least it suggests -klu is more than just a possessive suffix...

2) Ko taa ibiklu bishaa.
This is my wife.

3) Koklu laap ota Suhakmayan.
Her name is Suhakmay.

...except that it really seems like -klu is a possessive prefix XD See the ko/koklu variation between (2) and (3)? And ibiklu for "my" in (2)?

Also interesting that there's no ukya or ota in (2). There's taa, which might be the same kind of thing? Seems like it might be in the right spot to be. If the phrase structure is:

(noun-phrase) ukta/ota/taa (noun-phrase)

that would be consistent with:

(Koklu laap "her name") ota (Suhakmayan).
(Ko "her, this, 3rd person") taa (ibiklu bishaa "my wife")

Which would make ukya/ota/taa some kind of copulae? But why do ukya/ota vary in the laap sentences? And then what in the world is ukyaklu doing??

Not sure. The ko/koklu situation seems pretty straightforward, but I'm not sure at all about ukya/ota, or taa. Any guesses?
Visions1 wrote: 09 May 2024 04:22 Trailsend, what should we do?

That's very nice of you; Trailsend, what would you like?
Okay, I have an idea. I need a tool I haven't gotten yet.

"Ah, Suhakkan. How do you say What is this? in Alushi?"
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

Trailsend wrote: 09 May 2024 05:32 "Ah, Suhakkan. How do you say What is this? in Alushi?"
"You could say 7a) taa muryo. Or 7b) aw taa muryo," he says.

Edit: Added numbers.
Edit: Oops, I broke the formatting :/
Last edited by Arayaz on 10 May 2024 13:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Trailsend »

Spoiler:
Ooooooh okay, some mysteries maybe unravelling.

4) (Aw) taa muryo?
What is this?

"Taa" here looks like a demonstrative, this. Back in (2):

2) Ko taa ibiklu bishaa.
This is my wife.

Maybe that's what it was doing, forming a sort of phrase with "ko", like "She, here, is my wife".

If that's true, this seems more like a zero-copula structure, and ukya/ota aren't related to taa after all.

Not confident in any of that yet, just guesses.
I cup one hand, and taking my waterskin, pour the last splash of water inside into it. I hold out my hand with the little puddle of water to Suhakkan.

Aw taa muryo?
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

Trailsend wrote: 09 May 2024 15:40I cup one hand, and taking my waterskin, pour the last splash of water inside into it. I hold out my hand with the little puddle of water to Suhakkan.

Aw taa muryo?
8) "Aw taa ipshi," says Suhakkan.
9) "Hamklu slaaha ipshimi?" asks Suhakmay.


(A meta note: I'm co-opting Suhakkan and Suhakmay into a sort of "easy mode" and "hard mode" here, in a way. Suhakkan speaks your language, but Suhakmay doesn't; I know at least Trailsend and probably more of you would enjoy trying to learn from a monolingual speaker. So you can speak to either of them, depending what you want.)

Edit: Added numbers.
Last edited by Arayaz on 10 May 2024 13:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Trailsend »

Spoiler:
"Hamklu slaaha ipshimi?"

Aaaaaah I wondered if ibiklu/hamklu was going to show up here!! Okay okay okay. -klu is doing things, also I think things are in families that are not what I thought at first [:D] [:D] [:D]

We have:

Ibiklu, "my"
Hamklu, "your"
Koklu, "her/his?"
Ukyaklu, ????

It almost feels like ukyaklu could be a second-person-plural, since Suhakmay was making the offer to the both of us. But if that's the case then I have no idea what ukya was doing in "Ibiklu laap ukya Suhakkanan."

.....oooooh, hang on. Maybe the gloss on "Ibiklu laap ukya Suhakkanan" is something like

ibi-klu laap ukya Suhakkanan
1-POSS call 2.PL Suhakkanan
Y'all (may) call me Suhakkanan.

That could explain why only the 1st-person laap sentence used ukya, and both the 2nd-person and 3rd-person laap sentences used ota. Maybe ota means "we."

ibi-klu laap ukya Suhakkan-an
1-POSS call 2.PL Suhakkan-??
Y'all (may) call me Suhakkanan.

ham-klu laap ota Trailsend-an.
2-POSS call 1.PL Trailsend-??
We call you Trailsend.

ko-klu laap ota Visions-an, kahiþra.
3-POSS call 1.PL Visions-?? ??
We call them Visions.

That seems promising, but...still very speculative. If ota pops up as a first-person-plural I am going to be SUSPICIOUS.

Definitely lots of suffixes happening; we've got the -an popping up on names, and the -mi popping up on ipshi.
I smile gratefully.

"Ibiklu slaaha ipshimi. ...Kahiþra?"
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Arayaz »

Trailsend wrote: 09 May 2024 19:56 I smile gratefully.

"Ibiklu slaaha ipshimi. ...Kahiþra?"
10) "Kahiþra, haayashin ibi," says Suhakmay. She quickly strides off, presumably to grab water.
"It sounds odd to say kahiþra there ─ here, at least," says Suhakkan. "You sound like a southerner when you do."



(Do you want me to go back and add numbers to all the Alushi sentences?)

Edit: Added numbers.
Last edited by Arayaz on 10 May 2024 13:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Analysis Swap: Alushi

Post by Kesshin »

(I would cleanly join the narrative but Danté can't be late to everything so i'm gonna ask we Just Act Like He Was Here The Whole Time And Was Just Listening Creepily From A Distance™.)
"Ah, Ibiklu laap ukya Dantésan. Kahiþra."
he/him, they/them
Forgive me if I seem uneducated or disorganized, I am new to the community and vocab.

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